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  1. #61
    If my girlfriend and I were to marry and one day she chose to no longer want anything to do with me, REGARDLESS OF WHATEVER REASONING MAY BE OR WHAT SHE MAY HAVE DONE DURING SAID RELATIONSHIP...

    Why.

    Why should I ever have to give her another dime for anything? Child support? Sure that's another argument entirely. But why should I ever pay her a dime? If she no longer wants anything to do with me then logically she shouldn't want anything to do with my money. Alimony is just a terrible system designed to jab men where it hurts and before you even go there, yes, men can in fact get alimony but the statistics between the two are EXTREMELY skewed.

  2. #62

    Last edited by seta-san; 2012-12-08 at 12:29 PM.

  3. #63
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
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    I'm confused by the lack of information this article provides us with. I would be very interested to know what the actual law says, and how the judge has the ability to charge more than this guy actually makes. It just doesn't make any sense, and no insight into these obvious questions is provided.

    One thing that, if true, really shocks me, is that the State of New Jersey receives a check from the federal government for every dollar of alimony that this guy pays. So, for example, if John pays 100,000k a year in alimony, the federal government writes a check to NJ for 100,000k, and that money is used for things like judge pensions etc. If that is true, and I really have no reason to believe it is without proof, then that is a bigger crime than what is happening to this man.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  4. #64
    Brewmaster Klingers's Avatar
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    It's not like a women is going to leave a marriage empty-handed. She'll most likely get more than 50% of the assets earned during the marriage, plus traditionally speaking full custody of the kids. Unless she's way past prime income earning age, say 50, then there should be no alimony. Blanket-ban.

    Child support's a separate thing and that should be paid to help raise the kids, but I'm sorry... Following division of assets, no divorcee should materially owe their ex-partner anything outside of shared responsibility for children. No one should have to keep someone who doesn't want to share a life with them in luxury. It's that simple.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    I'm confused by the lack of information this article provides us with. I would be very interested to know what the actual law says, and how the judge has the ability to charge more than this guy actually makes. It just doesn't make any sense, and no insight into these obvious questions is provided.
    Well as far as I can tell the whole article was only really retelling a letter to the editor that man wrote, plus reciting what his defender is saying. So yeah, pretty sure it's one sided.

    Also worth nothing that the group supporting him in the article has been bashing the judge for being Muslim.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2012-12-08 at 01:20 PM.

  6. #66
    Bloodsail Admiral Honzi's Avatar
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    Cases like that confirm my intent to make a pre-nup, incase I ever get married.
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

  7. #67
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    WoW... I did not even know about Alimony before today... Why the fuck is it even still there? I get child support but... Alimony?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    WoW... I did not even know about Alimony before today... Why the fuck is it even still there? I get child support but... Alimony?
    If your wife gets into an accident and become paralysed, should you be able to divorce her to avoid paying her hospital bills? There's a difference between saying the system needs to be improved, and that it needs to be gone completely.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Lassira View Post
    Men dumb enough to get married deserve everything they get.
    My sentiments exactly :P

  10. #70
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    If your wife gets into an accident and become paralysed, should you be able to divorce her to avoid paying her hospital bills? There's a difference between saying the system needs to be improved, and that it needs to be gone completely.
    Well here in Denmark i guess the system is good since the goverment will take care of everything for her?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    WoW... I did not even know about Alimony before today... Why the fuck is it even still there? I get child support but... Alimony?
    Serious answer--it's still relevant because when two people are married, one spouse generally sacrifices their career for the other spouse in one way or another. Example: husband gets a big promotion but it requires them to move across the country, wife quits her job so he can take the promotion, ends up taking a job that's a step down from what she had previously or ends up having to spend six months looking for a comparable position, etc. Alimony law states that the other spouse is entitled to financial compensation for that sacrifice if the couple gets divorced.

    Men get spousal support more often now because women make more (than they used to, anyways). That being said women (and sometimes men, but not as often) treat marriage as a way to get out of doing actual work and abuse the system, which sucks.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Honzi View Post
    Cases like that confirm my intent to make a pre-nup, incase I ever get married.
    Yep same. The whole 50/50 thing is retarded as well, especially if one person earns considerably more than the other... Plus I'd be keeping my house

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    Well here in Denmark i guess the system is good since the goverment will take care of everything for her?
    Yup. But the United States doesn't have that, hence these extensive support payments and their necessity. Europe is generally better at this stuff for a reason.

  14. #74
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    People today have little to no sense of loyalty anymore.
    That isn't entirely true. My Grandparents loathed each other, and while I never say physical violence, I often heard extremely foul language and abuse thrown at my Grandmother from her Husband. Her reason for staying; It was how I was raised.

    People are not raised these days like they were before. I agree to a part that people these days are too quick to throw in the towel, but I think comparing it to even 40 years ago, you realise that people were almost forbidden to divorce.

    On-Topic: This is always a tricky subject, but my view is simple. If a couple want a divorce, Child Support should be voluntary based on the situation. The the partner is leaving because they're depressed, abused or beaten, then I feel it should be compulsory for them to pay. If however a partner wants to leave, but their partner cheated on them, or otherwise is just sick of them, they shouldn't be required to pay.

    It is entirely unfair that in most cases, women win custody of their children, and then the Man has to pay an insane amount of money for a child he rarely gets to see, because his wife chose to leave. This example is more expressed at women leaving their husbands, but it works both ways of course.

    If you divorce and you want to take children with you, you need to provide for them yourself. If you can't, tough shit.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 01:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Yup. But the United States doesn't have that, hence these extensive support payments and their necessity. Europe is generally better at this stuff for a reason.
    It is a terrible system. Why should the government be forced to make payments to a person who divorced, because they can't cover their own living costs? Tough!

  15. #75
    Bloodsail Admiral Hextor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Looking through this thread made me realize that I am lucky to be a woman.

    1. No chick is going to call me out of the blue, tell me I knocked her up and then demand 18 years of child support.
    2. Full control over reproductive decisions, if for some reason I decide to get an abortion or get the father of my unborn child out of my life I can head over to the abortion clinic without a second thought -or- keep my mouth shut, keep the "father" line on my child's birth certificate blank and go on my merry way.
    3. If I do decide to involve my child's father in his/her life, I am almost guaranteed custody rights -and- I get an 18 year paycheck!

    What a sh*tty system, no wonder men are so bitter.
    If only all women would think like you...

  16. #76
    Old God
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmatum View Post
    Yep same. The whole 50/50 thing is retarded as well, especially if one person earns considerably more than the other... Plus I'd be keeping my house
    If both work, you can easily make big purchases together. No one will get 50% of your private capital here, nor will they get first dibs on things you have inheritated, the only thing one would have to worry about is housing, whoever is in greater need will get it(the one getting most of the costudy rights normally, think about the children etc), but the other part is able to demand economic compensation if that happens.

    So if I got divorced and my wife got our house because she is the main caregiver of our children(shared costudy is the norm here though, with kids living with mom/dad on a regular basis, which btw lowers the amount of child support you have to pay since you are already having the kids at your place, paying for all the essentials while they live with you), she would if she was financially capable have to compensate me economically, she also have no claim on my private savings/investments or things that have been passed on to me from relatives etc.

    What we would split 50/50 is shared bank accounts/investments, and things in the house etc.

    And because of that I see little risk in getting merried.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  17. #77
    Gotta love entitlement laws like this that do nothing but promote bad behavior. Too bad if you lost that job were you made 150k /year you still can't "maintain" your previous lifestyle. Divorce should work the same way imo. Too bad this guy got stuck with that shit bag judge and ended up losing his job.
    Last edited by Barnabas; 2012-12-08 at 01:55 PM.

  18. #78
    Pandaren Monk Zogarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Serious answer--it's still relevant because when two people are married, one spouse generally sacrifices their career for the other spouse in one way or another. Example: husband gets a big promotion but it requires them to move across the country, wife quits her job so he can take the promotion, ends up taking a job that's a step down from what she had previously or ends up having to spend six months looking for a comparable position, etc. Alimony law states that the other spouse is entitled to financial compensation for that sacrifice if the couple gets divorced.

    Men get spousal support more often now because women make more (than they used to, anyways). That being said women (and sometimes men, but not as often) treat marriage as a way to get out of doing actual work and abuse the system, which sucks.
    People make decisions throughout their lifes, and it is THEIR decision. The wife in your example chose to follow the husband and therefor weaken her own job stance. This was most likely the best option according to her at this time. It was not the husbands fault that he got offered a better job, and of course he asked his wife if she wanted to follow through with it and moved.

    My point is, that in your example, she herself chose her paths, and in the end (After the divorce) it turned out that it was a bad choice. It is not the husbands fault. Its the same as if her boss has offered her to do an assignment and she failed at it and got demoted. Should the boss then pay her because he offered her the job, that turned out was a bad idea to take?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    People make decisions throughout their lifes, and it is THEIR decision. The wife in your example chose to follow the husband and therefor weaken her own job stance. This was most likely the best option according to her at this time. It was not the husbands fault that he got offered a better job, and of course he asked his wife if she wanted to follow through with it and moved.
    That's a very lousy way to look at things. It was the better option for the couple. It was a bad choice for her, but a good one for him. She made a sacrifice for him. The idea is to compensate someone for making sacrifices that benefits the other one. It's not the husband's fault, but spousal support is not about fault, it is about an equitable outcome.


    My point is, that in your example, she herself chose her paths, and in the end (After the divorce) it turned out that it was a bad choice. It is not the husbands fault. Its the same as if her boss has offered her to do an assignment and she failed at it and got demoted. Should the boss then pay her because he offered her the job, that turned out was a bad idea to take?
    That's completely different. Here she wasn't making a sacrifice for the boss. That's the difference.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    People make decisions throughout their lifes, and it is THEIR decision. The wife in your example chose to follow the husband and therefor weaken her own job stance. This was most likely the best option according to her at this time. It was not the husbands fault that he got offered a better job, and of course he asked his wife if she wanted to follow through with it and moved.

    My point is, that in your example, she herself chose her paths, and in the end (After the divorce) it turned out that it was a bad choice. It is not the husbands fault. Its the same as if her boss has offered her to do an assignment and she failed at it and got demoted. Should the boss then pay her because he offered her the job, that turned out was a bad idea to take?
    It is THEIR decision, not hers or his, so the ramifications of the decision should affect BOTH of them, not just "her" in this example. You are placing the ramifications of their JOINT decision on only her shoulders, not his. This is only an example but this does happen in real life.

    Your example of a boss and employee is not a good example because an employer-employee relationship is not a marriage relationship, there are very many differences.

    Abuses to the alimony system also exist, which is what most of the thread is about. Obviously it is ridiculous that a man should end up in debtor's prison for not paying his wife more than 100% of his annual income as alimony. That should have never happened, nor should people try to gain the system for their own benefit.

    Edit: Semaphore summed things up well too.

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