## View Poll Results: Are the numbers too high?

Voters
572. You may not vote on this poll
• Bigger is Better

170 29.72%
• the numbers are too damn high

208 36.36%
• I Have No Strong Feelings One Way or the Other. Oh look a butterfly.

194 33.92%

# Thread: Too many high numbers(HP,DPS,Healing,etc) Like it or Not?

1. Originally Posted by Alltat
Likely because the only thing people dislike more than being wrong is people who can prove to them exactly how and why they're wrong. Most people don't have a lot to actually back up their arguments with, but like to think of themselves as smarter than they are.

Using those numbers, we can expect gear with item level 1000+ next expansion. Considering that items already have over 1k worth of each stat on them, I expect the squish to come with the next expansion, because right now your brain kind of filters out the second half of every number in the game.
I'm hoping they just go with the mega damage solution, personally.

2. Take the following example.

You have 18,446,744,709,551,616 HPs and you get hit for 17,446,744,551,616 damage.

You're almost dead right? No, the first number is 18.4 Quadrillion while the second is 17.4 Trillion. The second is less than 0.1% of the first (ie almost no effect at all)

Now obviously this number is extreme. But, different people are going to have different thresholds for how fast they can deal with large numbers. This can be fixed somewhat by the computer only showing you the significant digits (ie the first number would be shown as 18.4Q and the second as 17.4T) But even then the amount of time it takes your mind to recognize that those 2 numbers are significantly different is vastly more than if they were 18,446 vs 17 damage (rounded). It may not seem like it at times because in both cases we're talking about fractions of a second.

Also the risk of hitting the damage ceiling is very real. Blizzard currently uses signed 32-bit integers with 2 decimal places of precision for their damage (and presumably healing). This gives an effective cap of 21,474,836.48. (~21.5 Million) Evidence of this is seen in the threat cap (20 Million) as well as low level weapons and heirlooms.
My level 2 warrior has a 1.99 dps sword (2-5 damage; 1.9 speed) 3.5 / 1.9 ~= 1.84 so clearly there's numbers not being shown here. 1.99 dps @ 1.9 speed is more like 2.25-5.31
My level 8 monk's heirloom staff actually gives its damage range to 2 decimal places (34.56-51.84 or 12.00 dps). Conventional weapons are probably just rounded.

The amount of time required to "fix" this problem is likely significantly more than that of doing the stat squish (which is why they tried it out before MoP). They decided against the stat squish for now because it wasn't strictly necessary at the moment, but we're going to have serious problems next expansion.

3. The amount of time required to change all integers from 32 to 64 bit shouldn't be that significant. I think they're more concerned about the increase in processing.

4. Originally Posted by Lolaan
Take the following example.

You have 18,446,744,709,551,616 HPs and you get hit for 17,446,744,551,616 damage.

You're almost dead right? No, the first number is 18.4 Quadrillion while the second is 17.4 Trillion. The second is less than 0.1% of the first (ie almost no effect at all)

Now obviously this number is extreme. But, different people are going to have different thresholds for how fast they can deal with large numbers. This can be fixed somewhat by the computer only showing you the significant digits (ie the first number would be shown as 18.4Q and the second as 17.4T) But even then the amount of time it takes your mind to recognize that those 2 numbers are significantly different is vastly more than if they were 18,446 vs 17 damage (rounded). It may not seem like it at times because in both cases we're talking about fractions of a second.
Health won't get quite that high, but one could also say 18,446T and 17.4T (that is, the shorthand used should be the same relative to your actual health.) Wouldn't be hard to recognize that.

5. I don't mind to be honest, Since how higher it will be how faster there will be a K or a M behind the dmg you do, like at your health

6. Originally Posted by JimmyHellfire
They couldn't do that. You can't have the game communicating totally different things to different people. Like, a guy says, my Exorcism deals 345 damage right now, that's pretty good, while the other scratches his head because his Sinister Strike hits for 289450.
Except it would probably say 345K instead of 345. Y'know, like it does on your status bar?

7. Originally Posted by SilentStocket
You kill Deathwing 25 heroic and 2 levels later die to a turtle because you didn't heal before pulling. So much for feeling stronger
But that is not a simple turtle. Most likely some turtle like Wyrmhorn Turtle in Valley of Four Winds, mutated and powerful, not like your common turtles. Same about virmens, they are not your common rabbits, they are giant mutated killers from Snagtooth, Springtail and other ominous families.

So, I am looking toward more and more powerful super-mutated enemies with stats growing higher and higher.
The amount of time required to change all integers from 32 to 64 bit shouldn't be that significant. I think they're more concerned about the increase in processing.
As I wrote before in this thread, analysis of current data already shows that boss HP values are operated with as floating point numbers (and these HP values can go as high as hundreds of undecillions). So there will be no need in any conversion until our own characters will start hitting couple billions HP mark (characters' HP are operated on different basis than enemies HP, so they are still subject to being 32-integer). Which won't happen for a very, very, very long time.

8. Love the bigger numbers honestly, makes it like Pinball and I can SEE my characters getting stronger.

I run with all combat text turned off except outgoing mitigation (I'm a DPS, so the mobs dodge, parry, immune etc.) and outgoing crits (to see the big numbers).

I think most players don't really get how much of the UI they can get rid of. A good example is dropping healing rain on a group of players. Do you really need to see all the little 1000, 2000, 4000 healing hits? Nope. Without all that green text flashing around, you'll have a lot clearer view.

9. Originally Posted by huth
WotLK to Cata is about the same difference as Cata to MoP, actually. Between raid tiers, increase has been largely fixed to 13 iLvls per full tier since BC.

yeah, during wotlk things started very slowly to get out of hand, cata was when things started to really go haywire. In more than one way apparently.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 04:21 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Servasus
No. They don't. They feel stronger. Feeling and actually being are two separate things. I like the big numbers.
how exactly do they feel stronger though? Yes at first sight they feel stronger but as I said, once you realize everything around you gained power relative to your power gain isn't that exacty what I said? Things stay the same the more they change?

Wouldnt feeling more powerful imply there was an actual difference in power to be felt? Like your damage values stay exactly the same but since all HP values are cut by 1000% you one-hit everything and everyone?

And besides, that "same" ability is one shotting things you previously couldn't. Of course it won't feel overly powerful against MoP mobs, but when you go back and solo old content you feel like your character has actually improved.
I will accept that as an argument but seeing how entirely irrelevant old content is to the real game that happens with current level content I dont think it is a particularly strong one. There's also nothing wrong with getting more powerful. The ludicrous scaling of getting more powerful is the issue.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 04:32 AM ----------

Originally Posted by nnelson54
Higher numbers mean absolutely nothing. Just like lower numbers mean absolutely nothing. You argued against your own opinion(and there's no more number clutter if the people are doing 100K dps vs 100 dps).
But that's not true at all.

Lower numbers mean A LOT more to most people, even many people who voted for bigger is better, I presume. They might just not realize it..
Because in the end small numbers are more relatable. They feel more real and tangible to us because everything in our lives is based around - more or less - small numbers.

A thousand is already a pretty big number in the real world for most things. Driving a thousand kilometres in your car is going to take a while. Much harder to relate to than driving to the supermarket 10 km away. Which already is 10000 metres of course...that much about the proposed Megadamage change or whatever, which would be a decent bandaid albeit not a real fix.

Now in WoW terms where we are moving in the 100k ranges for many things that's like a distance spanning two times the circumference of our planet, more actually...
I cant realte to that at all.

10. I am considering this poll to be closed now.

thanks for all the input to everyone! Quite surprised at the result to be honest.

Now, it's time for Blizzard to bring the numbers down :-D

11. Originally Posted by phillipisawarlock
I like hanging larger numbers. It actually feels like my character is getting stronger.
this ^
/10chars

12. Originally Posted by Xolotl
yeah, during wotlk things started very slowly to get out of hand, cata was when things started to really go haywire. In more than one way apparently.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 04:21 AM ----------

how exactly do they feel stronger though? Yes at first sight they feel stronger but as I said, once you realize everything around you gained power relative to your power gain isn't that exacty what I said? Things stay the same the more they change?

Wouldnt feeling more powerful imply there was an actual difference in power to be felt? Like your damage values stay exactly the same but since all HP values are cut by 1000% you one-hit everything and everyone?

I will accept that as an argument but seeing how entirely irrelevant old content is to the real game that happens with current level content I dont think it is a particularly strong one. There's also nothing wrong with getting more powerful. The ludicrous scaling of getting more powerful is the issue.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 04:32 AM ----------

But that's not true at all.

Lower numbers mean A LOT more to most people, even many people who voted for bigger is better, I presume. They might just not realize it..
Because in the end small numbers are more relatable. They feel more real and tangible to us because everything in our lives is based around - more or less - small numbers.

A thousand is already a pretty big number in the real world for most things. Driving a thousand kilometres in your car is going to take a while. Much harder to relate to than driving to the supermarket 10 km away. Which already is 10000 metres of course...that much about the proposed Megadamage change or whatever, which would be a decent bandaid albeit not a real fix.

Now in WoW terms where we are moving in the 100k ranges for many things that's like a distance spanning two times the circumference of our planet, more actually...
I cant realte to that at all.
"Why do you feel like you're getting stronger? I am gonna reply to this about how you're wrong."

*reads the rest of the post*

"Oh, okay. So you actually explained why you felt like you were getting stronger. My bad. But I don't think that's a strong enough reason because I don't want to admit that you actually have a point."

As someone said earlier, once we get into the trillions and such, it may end up becoming a problem when people can't distinguish large numbers from super large numbers because of the amount of commas needed to define the number. But as someone else already said as well, it's easy to say something hits for 1.2m damage rather than 1,200,000 damage, and that will likely be the defining factor.

If they do the squish, undoubtedly the older content will not be soloable or will not be as easily solo'd as it is today. If I can solo LK content in MoP, but the next expansion comes out and at level 95 I no longer can solo LK content, THAT is a problem. You nerfed someone who 5 levels ago could preform far greater tasks than they can now 5 levels higher. That doesn't make sense. That is bad game design. That is punishing your players for no reason other than "the numberz are too high and my brain hurtz."

High numbers intimidating people is never going to be a reasonable excuse for the item squish when the much larger concern lies with Blizzard's ability to squish them in a way that doesn't nerf the player so much that they cannot perform old tasks the way they can now.

---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 06:20 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Xolotl
I am considering this poll to be closed now.

thanks for all the input to everyone! Quite surprised at the result to be honest.

Now, it's time for Blizzard to bring the numbers down :-D
38 more people said they didn't like big numbers than those that do. The other 190 people said it doesn't matter to them. Surely this means it's the ultimate time to do the squish because those 38 people said so!

If anything, your poll proves that out of around 500 instances, the opinion of people who are strongly against it versus the people who are strongly for it is roughly the same. 7% diffence is not enough to really make an informed decision on whether the community is going to take it well or not.

Blizzard came out and announced the squish would not happen because of the mixed reaction it got from the community, and that they would release it when they felt the community as a larger more cohesive unit decided it was really needed.

That may be expansion 5. It may be expansion 7 or 8. We don't know. But you can't close your poll and say, "Okay, guys! 7% more people said they wanted it! Clearly we know what must be done!"

#### Posting Permissions

• You may not post new threads
• You may not post replies
• You may not post attachments
• You may not edit your posts
•