1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Confused with Intellect vs Mastery gems and 2set bonus

    Heya.

    I'm having a hard time with my gems, and secondary stats stacking.

    My armory: h t t p :/ / eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/grim-batol/Kisarag%C3%AD/advanced/

    My progress is 11/16 HC in 10man, currently progressing on Empress and I am feeling that I am falling behind in lots of fights nomatter what I do with my stats, and I know we are having a serious problem as resto druids, but how can I make that gap slightly less?

    I would also like to know how you value intellect, how much mastery that would equal 1 intellect, etc for throughput.

    If it's better to use +80Int/+160Spi gems in blue sockets, instead of +160Spi/+160Mast. Which would give more throughput? How much would the difference be compared to the first set of gem?

    I know that I am having alot of spirit, but I find it comfortable. But if I could balance it out with throughput better, I'd do that.

    I switched to LFR tier head to gain the 2set bonus. I am losing ~300 int and secondary stats, Mastery; ~400 for doing it. Is it worth it? I think so though but would like to hear your opinions.

    Thank you for reading!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by skmzarn View Post
    Heya.

    I'm having a hard time with my gems, and secondary stats stacking.

    My armory: h t t p :/ / eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/grim-batol/Kisarag%C3%AD/advanced/

    My progress is 11/16 HC in 10man, currently progressing on Empress and I am feeling that I am falling behind in lots of fights nomatter what I do with my stats, and I know we are having a serious problem as resto druids, but how can I make that gap slightly less?

    I would also like to know how you value intellect, how much mastery that would equal 1 intellect, etc for throughput.

    If it's better to use +80Int/+160Spi gems in blue sockets, instead of +160Spi/+160Mast. Which would give more throughput? How much would the difference be compared to the first set of gem?

    I know that I am having alot of spirit, but I find it comfortable. But if I could balance it out with throughput better, I'd do that.

    I switched to LFR tier head to gain the 2set bonus. I am losing ~300 int and secondary stats, Mastery; ~400 for doing it. Is it worth it? I think so though but would like to hear your opinions.

    Thank you for reading!
    Go for max intellect. It also benefits Heart of the Wild

  3. #3
    wow 11k spirit? i only have 8.7k (with flask) and my mana is fine in fights. do you just spam rejuvs on ppl non stop with that kinda spirit or something.

    you've got about 6-7 more ilevel than me, yet u have 1.5k less int than me... comparing a few of our fights.


    feng u did 57.5k, i did 60k (i was with a disc priest that fked up my tranq 2 bastard spirit shell!!!)

    protectors elite u did 53k, i did 65k.



    imo, you need to utilize ur tranq more and get the max heals from it, same with tree form.. i find if i waste it / dont use it as many times in a fight that i could of then my healin will be rly low. gotta do everything u can to boost ur numbers as a druid as we're just bloody weak.


    personally if i was u - id find an int trinket with spirit proc and get rid of ur spirit trinket. change all the gems to int+spirit/mastery/crit (no point goin mastery gem if ur at liek 18.05% mastery and cant make the new 19%, will be wasted).

    drop down to about 8-9k spirit, 11k is too much



    also heart of wild is becoming seriously weak these days, it rly doesnt do that much dps ne more compared to the rest of the raid.. at the start of the expansion ud be doin like double the DPS of everyone else in the raid.. but now ull most likely be dead last on the meters. I can manage about 120-130k dps and about 4-5mil damage. Unless ur wipin to 4-5mil HP enrage timers or something... just use natures vigil for more healing. pop that with a good tranq, hello easy numbers



    oh also... 2set is worth it, but im havin doubts about 4set. I replaced my LFR 4set head with a heroic head for +200 more int etc, 3sec lower timer on swiftmend isnt that gr8 unless ur using soul of forest (which i dont). But id say drop some int for the 2set, as it saves u a ton of mana
    Last edited by Deathruler11; 2012-12-08 at 11:05 AM.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    If skmzarn is raiding 25heroics, i would stay around 10-11k spirit.
    I raid myself 25hc's, and in most of the fights in the end having almost no mana. (10.2k spirit ub)
    Yeah you shouldnt really be topping healing meters as a druid, im usually just slightly above the disc priest / hpallys ofc depending on the fight, monks+shammys leading the meters.

  5. #5
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    Deathruler, it really depends what healer setup you have for your HPS. I can't noway in hell beat our holy paladin, it's not all about HPS yes, of course not, but it's about total healing done as well, and I am way behind there. He is always sniping my rejuvenations, so they are very often overhealed by alot.
    For progression, HotW is actually not bad at all, pretty decent actually, even after the nerf. But I am using HotW mostly just because it gives me another flask, +~1000 int from the passive int bonus, and according to spreadsheets, it's better than NV overall.

    The more farming content we get, the less healing. Especially for me as resto druid. I don't know what logs you checked, but for the latest raid, we 9manned stone guards, feng and garajal heroics with 2 healers. That might have something to do with the "low" healing.

    But you're right though, for farming bosses, I am utilizing Tranq and Tree of Life worse than normally. Just situationally, if they are not needed, I am not using them, simple.

    I am also always using int flask & int food. It's really odd that I have so low intellect compared to you. Too much spiritgems, probably? And the LFR head.

    ebah, I am only raiding 10mans, but I find it to be needed to have this much spirit for some reason.

    I sat out one fight currently, that is Garalon HC. A fight that should in theory benefit us as resto druids more than well. This fight just shows us how really weak we currently are. I had to DPS this fight last time to be in the roster.
    I have no chance in hell to get even close to monk/holy paladin on Garalon for example. If I am doing something horribly wrong there, I don't know. But that's about it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post

    personally if i was u - id find an int trinket with spirit proc and get rid of ur spirit trinket. change all the gems to int+spirit/mastery/crit (no point goin mastery gem if ur at liek 18.05% mastery and cant make the new 19%, will be wasted).
    I was under the impression Mastery worked just like all of the other secondary stats except that it doesn't have a DR, which is why it's considered our best secondary stat after the first haste breakpoint.

  7. #7
    A few notes to the below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post
    wow 11k spirit? i only have 8.7k (with flask) and my mana is fine in fights. do you just spam rejuvs on ppl non stop with that kinda spirit or something.

    you've got about 6-7 more ilevel than me, yet u have 1.5k less int than me... comparing a few of our fights.


    feng u did 57.5k, i did 60k (i was with a disc priest that fked up my tranq 2 bastard spirit shell!!!)

    protectors elite u did 53k, i did 65k.
    I can't actually open OP's armory, and I don't know yours. But the relative healing you're going to do, is dependant on your healing partners and raid's capabilities - Feng, for example, if your raid interrupts the quakes as should be, then you're going to be pushing *alot* less healing than a raid where they fail to do so. Same goes for fire phase - if your raid's dps is low, you'll end up eating fire pulses. If it's high, you'll kill him before the second Draw Flame. Have you compared those two things?

    Elite, same concept - the longer the fight drags out, the better HPS you're going to get (as long as you have mana).



    imo, you need to utilize ur tranq more and get the max heals from it, same with tree form.. i find if i waste it / dont use it as many times in a fight that i could of then my healin will be rly low. gotta do everything u can to boost ur numbers as a druid as we're just bloody weak.
    Wasting raid cooldowns for the sake of padding meters is stupid. I'd rather save my tranq for when I know the raid needs it to survive, than at a point where no other damage is going on, and I know the raid can safely be healed up by efficient heals before the next big burst comes (a great example would be Shek'zeer - you have two zones that'll explode closely after each other, then no "major" raid damage for a significant amount of time. Using tranq after the first is fair game, because you WILL take another big hit and you need everyone topped off. Using tranq after the second is a waste of a raid CD, though).


    personally if i was u - id find an int trinket with spirit proc and get rid of ur spirit trinket. change all the gems to int+spirit/mastery/crit (no point goin mastery gem if ur at liek 18.05% mastery and cant make the new 19%, will be wasted).
    If he's got the spirit trinket from Emperors (which I assume as he's 11/16 HC - if he had a fruit barrel it'd be bad), then he should deffo stick to it. The int proc has an uptime of +40%, which is *significant*. You're not going to find a better trinket that provides more stats (as a comparison, the seal gives approx 1.3K int on average and 1.1K spirit on normal - the Revered scroll of ancestors provide 1.1K int and 900 spirit on average, for the same item level).

    You also don't seem to understand how mastery works. You will ALWAYS gain the benefit of master - no matter if you're at 18.05, 18.5, 18.89 or 19%. You'll get a 18.05, 18.5, 18.89 and a 19% increase in healing from mastery. It is NOT only from 18%, 19%, etc - it ALWAYS benefits you. It's been a few years. People really should have got it by now <___<.




    also heart of wild is becoming seriously weak these days, it rly doesnt do that much dps ne more compared to the rest of the raid.. at the start of the expansion ud be doin like double the DPS of everyone else in the raid.. but now ull most likely be dead last on the meters. I can manage about 120-130k dps and about 4-5mil damage. Unless ur wipin to 4-5mil HP enrage timers or something... just use natures vigil for more healing. pop that with a good tranq, hello easy numbers
    HOTW is not chosen for it's ability to help you deal damage. It's chosen because it provides you with a passive 6% intellect bonus, which is stronger in the long run than the on-use healing increase from Nature's Vigil.



    oh also... 2set is worth it, but im havin doubts about 4set. I replaced my LFR 4set head with a heroic head for +200 more int etc, 3sec lower timer on swiftmend isnt that gr8 unless ur using soul of forest (which i dont). But id say drop some int for the 2set, as it saves u a ton of mana
    Swiftmend is *extremely* good. Lowering the cooldown of it by 20% is huge. It's virtually free, and it leaves effloresence behind, giving your aoe healing in a 10 man enviroment a significant boost (as it'll effect a third of the raid instead of an eight). I highly doubt that 200 int makes up for the bonus it gives.

    All in all, I honestly don't think you know alot of what you're talking about.

  8. #8
    interesting i didnt know that about mastery, thx for the tip.

    also, i never said i was right or knew wot i was talkin about, was simplying sayin what I personally would do... but thx for the tips, ill be adjustin a few things in my gameplay now

  9. #9
    Field Marshal
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    My tips, whether or not they're right who knows. I'll analyze your Feng Heroic vs ours.

    Your guild's kill time was near mine this week: 6:10 vs 6:35. The big shocker here is that your guild 3 heals this fight while mine 2 heals.
    Your HPS: 57k
    My HPS: 62k
    Your ilvl (healing gear): 495
    My ilvl (healing gear): 488
    Your Trinkets: 502 Heroic Will trinket & Darkmoon Card
    My Trinkets: 463 blue (Price of Progress) & Darmoon Card
    # of times you've healed that fight: 7
    # of times I've healed that fight: 2
    My gear is gemmed for moonkin --- meaning crit gems all over the place. When I reforge I hit the haste breakpoint and put the rest in to mastery.

    Raidbots.com comparison of our logs: http://www.raidbots.com/comparebot/5...0002ec#summary
    Epeen link for you: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/grim...kisarag%C3%AD/
    Epeen link for me: http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/cho'gall/manamonster/

    Analysis:

    I chose Nature's Vigil .. you chose Heart of the Wild
    You're a night elf ... I get berserking as troll
    Harmony: uptime for me is 100% ... for you is 97.1% (it dropped for a small period about 1/4 of the way through the fight)
    Living Seed: 28 from me vs 15 from you --- 4.3 per minute vs 2.4 per minute .... 800k healing from mine vs 357k for yours
    Nourish: 55 casts from me vs 11 from you
    Wild Mushroom: Yours hit 86 targets vs mine 111. Yours did 535k healing vs mine 92.5k
    Rejuvenation: 95% uptime for you vs 92% uptime for me. You had 10% more overheal on Rejuv than me.
    Wild Growth: 40.8% uptime for you vs 34.1% uptime for me. 5% more overheal on WG than me.
    Lifebloom: 95.8% uptime for you vs 93.5% uptime for me ... Despite this you did 3.8mil healing vs 4.3mil from me ... 22 heals/min on me vs 20.9 heals/min on yours. 5.6% more overhealing than my lifebloom.
    Efflorescence: 468 hits for you vs 252 hits for me ... 2.4mil healing for both of us .. 25.8% of mine crit vs 19% of yours. 38% more overheal from your Efflo than mine.
    Swiftmend (Direct Heal): You cast 20 and I cast 10. Mine healed for 600k less than yours. 20% of mine was crit vs 15% for you. 2% LESS overhealing than me.
    Tranquility: 41.3% more overhealing from your Tranq than mine. 2.8mil from me vs 1.4 mil from you. Yours hit 40 ticks ... mine 35.
    Regrowth: 2.1 mil healing from mine vs 807k from yours. 3.5 heals per minute from me vs 2.1 heals per minute from you. 25.6% more overhealing from you.

    From what I can tell these are your problems:
    1) Too much overhealing due to throwing out useless rejuvs, wild growths, and other spells for the sake of, what seems to be, a blind rotation.
    2) Improperly timing your healing CDs. Tranq did 41% more overhealing than me. I made good use of Berserking, Nature's Vigil, and Tree Form. You only cast Tree Form 1 time the entire fight. Spread your CDs out properly and have a mental plan of when you will pop CDs to coincide with the fight.
    3) Improper placement of Efflorescence. 38% more overheal than me.
    4) Wasting mana due to all of the above. You're needing to spend more mana to top your raid because you aren't making use of Blizzard's "intended" healing model. You seem to be healing like wrath by spamming raid heals all the time: use your cheap efficient heals more often.
    5) Utilize Nourish / Living Seed more. Nourish is your go-to filler. You don't need to throw rejuv/WG every time people take damage.
    6) Properly utilize Clearcasting procs with Regrowth. Your regrowths did 25.6% more overhealing.

  10. #10
    @Deathruler, those numbers don't mean anything unfortunately. For example, if your raid group is full of people who don't use their personal CDs properly while everyone in his group does, his numbers will be lower. Too many variables.

    @Kisa I don't think the 2 set bonus is worth losing 300 INT and 400 Mastery at all. Think about it, it's basically like a free RJ for every 10 RJs you cast. That's it. It doesn't help any of your other spells in any way. Here's my latest Garalon HC log (The most RJ-heavy fight for me this tier) - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4...?s=2837&e=3239 where I use 76 Rejuvenations.

    Had I used the 2 set, I would have saved roughly 68k mana, a little more than an Innervate. It sounds really good, however, I think I ended the fight with about 10% mana so I wasn't completely oom even without it. The other thing is Garalon is a bit of an extreme. I don't use as many RJs on any other fight, since they'd just overheal most of the time. Therefore, the savings would be much less.

    All this is from a 10m perspective where we're 3 healing most progression fights (Pala / Disc, Shaman, Druid). If you're 2 healing most of the time, I guess you could look deeper into mana savings, but I personally haven't found the need just yet.

    Regarding the gems, Owld had posted some math on one of these threads about Int vs Mastery but IMO the end result was very very negligible (as small as +4 healing on a Rejuvenation or something like that) so I'd just stick to Int as much as possible, at least for now.

    As for the other things, I stopped caring about numbers on farm so I wouldn't pay much attention to how much the Paladins are beating us by. However, on progress bosses, I found that to match the other healers on a purely numbers basis, I had to get more throughput stats. I was around 10k Spirit but I dropped it to 8kish and I think it worked better for me. I'm also using NV most of the time these days, unless we need my DPS.
    Last edited by Ashrr; 2012-12-09 at 01:32 AM.
    Ashr

  11. #11
    High Overlord
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    Thank you so much for your insight guys!

    Dracodraco, if you're still interested about my Armory, it is Kisaragí / EU-Grim Batol, raiding in Ress Plz. And you're right, if you fuck up, HPS goes higher. If you let healers heal through something to save on cds for later, HPS goes up. At some fights you really don't need or can see when you will be needed raidcds. Anything can happen, and just a Tranq to stabilize the raid if there's alot of incoming rng damage, or individual fuckups, can be more than welcome, even if it happens to overheal most of it.
    I have indeed the trinket from Emperor, and it's great, so is the Dark Moon trinket. Probably only going to change for the Sun trinket in Terrace. Not sure yet.

    The 4set bonus seems really good, and that might be okay to give up alot if intellect, mastery to get it, but it's the 2set bonus I currently have, and that's what I am worried about.

    Ashr, thanks for joining in, and when you're saying it, it seems I am giving up too much stats for 2set with LFR head. We are two-healing most of the fights so it gets pretty tough for me as resto druid, but I am still going. I just find that the paladin could almost soloheal some fights. I find that embarassing.

    I am going to check out on that math from Owld, thank you. Going to go back to my HC head also to compare differences.

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