View Poll Results: Would europeans be willing to take a China bailout in return for some sovereignty?

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  • yes

    11 8.87%
  • no

    113 91.13%
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  1. #1

    Would europeans be willing to take a China bailout in return for some sovereignty?

    I had a really interesting discussion with some people about the European debt crisis. We talked about the recession Europe is mired in. We talked about the huge problems with Greece, and Italy's issues. It seems quite a mess.

    So I proposed this question and it generated some interesting responses. I was curious to see what sort of responses it would get here. My friends told me not to start this thread, because they may think I'm just trolling. But I'm just too curious as to what the responses would be.

    So here is the scenario:

    Let's say China approached Europe with an offer. They would give a MASSIVE bailout. I dunno, quadrillions of dollars, or something amazing. This cash infusion would solve their debt crisis, and return Europe to prosperity. Jobs would return. There would be a brighter future on the immediate horizon. It would also have the potential to guarantee the long-term viability of Europe's social safety net. What China asks for in return is for Europe to surrender some degree of their sovereignty to China. China would get control of some aspects of European society going forward, to protect their new investment. I think there is some latitude on what form this control manifests itself as. Perhaps they get final say on economic matters. Or maybe they get some sort of permanent seat in government with some veto powers or legislation writing ability.

    Would europeans be willing to do this, to try to make sure their social programs are well-funded? To make sure austerity is never an option?

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Sileh's Avatar
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    No, just giving money to countries like for example Greece is purely a short-term solution and will inevitably lead to the same situation.

  3. #3
    I would rather kick those countries out as soon as the benefit/loss ratio would be higher for doing so. They really need to get their shit together.

    Also, no, i personally do not want China having any say in Europan countries.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Rely on a superpower nation with completely different goals/visions of the future, completely different cultures and traditions to fix our problems by throwing money at it with a major cost?

    Sounds like one of the worst ideas I've ever seen. The only people who can fix the problems we face is ourselves, not money from china or anywhere else. At the same time, the countries in the most trouble should not rely on the stronger nations of the EU to keep them affloat.
    I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    So basically, the question is would Germany be willing to cede some measure of fiscal control to China in order to bailout the Eurozone periphery? Yeah, I'm going to go with NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
    When survival is the goal, it's into the spider hole!

  6. #6
    Don't care about anyone else, but Sweden shall always belong to the Swedes.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral hiragana's Avatar
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    i seriously doubt it. Ive not many problems with China myself (obviously some) but the average european citizen wouldnt want them having power over their countries.

  8. #8
    Old God
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    Every country got their own separate economy(yes we depend on eachother but still), we have managed to keep our books in order so you are asking me if I would want my country to give up some of our sovereignty to China in order to help the countries that struggle the most? Just no, there are enough people that considers EU infringment/laws/regulations to be shite, I don't even want to think about what they would say if we had to bend our necks to China.

    China is a trading partner, and thats it.

    This is like asking if the US would be willing to give up some of their sovereignty to sort out some of the States that are in a bad position fiscally. Not likely to happen is it?
    Last edited by Jackmoves; 2012-12-08 at 12:57 PM.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  9. #9
    What? No, no reason to honestly.

  10. #10
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    EU would not. Some European countries might. The rest would not do it at gunpoint.

  11. #11
    No, because EU doesn't need the money. The only countries that are having real problems, are the ones that munch on the other countries' money (greece for one).

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Why not? Already gave too much sovereignty to Germany.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Grummgug View Post
    I had a really interesting discussion with some people about the European debt crisis.
    Debt isn't the main problem of the euro crisis, trust is.

    Other countries around the world begin to doubt that we will stick together when things look bad. If we would kick out Greece when things go bad, what kind of image does that give off for the whole of the EU? Can other countries still trust the euro when we don't stick together? Maybe the euro won't exist in the near future because we all jump ship.

    THAT is the main cause of the crisis. People speculate and speculate and speculate. And it all puts pressure on leaders of countries in the EU. If we would give a very strong signal of unification and backing eachother then this thing would've been over far sooner. But since the EU isn't one country, it took a long time to give off this signal. Because why should Germany and other rich countries pay Greece? That's country spanning socialism. People in Germany work hard, only to give a portion to Greece. Yeah, not a very popular thing to decide in Germany so of course their leader is skeptical because it really hurts. And that's why the EU didn't have a very strong signal to the outside world that they would fix things fast. And that's why speculation made things worse AGAIN.

    Anyway, from the looks of things we're on the right track now. The richer north has decided to aid the south. We've chosen solidarity. The outside world is slowly starting to gain some trust in us again. Greece, Spain and Italy (and perhaps a few more) will slowly get better because of it. Unless something bad happens, we'll be out of this crisis in a few years. Only part that worries me is that the north is getting into more debt because it aids the south, so the economies in the north are temporarily going down a bit as well. (see: recession in the Netherlands and now Germany as well)

    But as you can see, debt isn't the main issue for the EU as a whole. Sure, debt is an issue to some countries in the EU, but the biggest issue is the lack of trust from the outside world.

    If you want to look at a country that has really big debt issues, look at the US or Japan. The EU is doing very good compared to them(aside from the trust issue I just explained). As soon as trust in the EU returns, the whole world will start to look at the US again. That could be a gigantic shitstorm. The eurocrisis is nothing compared to that.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Hextor's Avatar
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    Yeah, no. That's like borderline slavery.

  15. #15
    I'd rather be poor than a rich slave.

  16. #16
    I would rather kick those countries out as soon as the benefit/loss ratio would be higher for doing so. They really need to get their shit together.

    Im just looking forward when Greece will gtfo of the union.
    Will be a day of rejoice for me personally no matter how sad and how much of a decleration of a failure it may be.
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-12-08 at 02:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Except there was no Russian Invasion into Crimea.
    Not like Putin acknowledged it on national tv..

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Istaril's Avatar
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    How exactly would China intend to finance this?

    They may have a strong economy, but they're still suffering the effects of the economic situation as well, their attempts at inflating their GDP is all smoke and mirrors.

  18. #18
    China would get control of some aspects of European society going forward
    No, because democracy.

    And China doesn't need any more slaves.

  19. #19
    Old God
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Debt isn't the main problem of the euro crisis, trust is.

    If you want to look at a country that has really big debt issues, look at the US or Japan. The EU is doing very good compared to them(aside from the trust issue I just explained). As soon as trust in the EU returns, the whole world will start to look at the US again. That could be a gigantic shitstorm. The eurocrisis is nothing compared to that.
    Quite right, EU's public debt as a whole(all member countries included), is around 80% of GDP, while high, we still got a bit to go before we are up at the debt levels of the USA(which is around 100%).

    Just staring at debt levels is to simplify the problems we got in extreme.
    The nerve is called the "nerve of awareness". You cant dissect it. Its a current that runs up the center of your spine. I dont know if any of you have sat down, crossed your legs, smoked DMT, and watch what happens... but what happens to me is this big thing goes RRRRRRRRRAAAAAWWW! up my spine and flashes in my brain... well apparently thats whats going to happen if I do this stuff...

  20. #20
    I'm pretty sure those 2 yes votes are non-europeans trolling the poll.

    And ofc I voted no, this is one of the worst ideas ever.

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