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  1. #1

    AMoC vs Blink Strike

    I see most Hunters now using aMoC as their 75 talent. I tried it out but I really don't like it due to the large focus cost. I started using Blink Strike and I find it works great for me being able to time every 3rd one with BW and helps a lot to get my pet to targets instantly.

    Convenience aside, how big of a difference are these 2 talents DPS wise? BM Spec.
    Last edited by Glurp; 2012-12-08 at 12:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Not sure on the numbers, but i prefer crows for a couple reasons. When I tried out blink strike, mostly in 5.0 ds, it felt buggy. Sometimes after a blink strike I still would be unable to kill command. When you use crows, make sure to always pop it after BW, saving that 30 focus helps a ton. It lines up with every other BW too.

    If someone has numbers for the three talents though I'd like to see them.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewiefied View Post
    Not sure on the numbers, but i prefer crows for a couple reasons. When I tried out blink strike, mostly in 5.0 ds, it felt buggy. Sometimes after a blink strike I still would be unable to kill command. When you use crows, make sure to always pop it after BW, saving that 30 focus helps a ton. It lines up with every other BW too.

    If someone has numbers for the three talents though I'd like to see them.
    Blink strike is working fine. And you'd have to delay BW to get it in sync after opening burst, just pool the focus, easy.

    OT: I use BS on fights where I know aMoC can be delayed due to boss immunity(Garajal spirit realm, Elegon, Lei Shi etc.)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Blink strike is working fine. And you'd have to delay BW to get it in sync after opening burst, just pool the focus, easy.

    OT: I use BS on fights where I know aMoC can be delayed due to boss immunity(Garajal spirit realm, Elegon, Lei Shi etc.)
    Those fights are pretty easy to use AMoC on tbh.

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  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Post derp...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Post derp...
    You were saying that you go blink strike on some fights you listed. I was just stating those fights were very easy to use AMoC on. Not sure where you are going with that post.

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  7. #7
    it's not hard to use the ability. it just can happen that you have to delay using it. which is a dps loss.
    (you can of course e.g. @Garajal ask someone esle to go into the totemreal, just because your aMoC is comming up in 10sec and you don't want to delay it, haha..)

  8. #8
    I would actually like to see a log from you tehstool with 100% uptime and an on cooldown use of aMoC on Lei Shi. Not even being snobby, I'm legit curious. I would use it in a heartbeat if you can tell me how to.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    I would actually like to see a log from you tehstool with 100% uptime and an on cooldown use of aMoC on Lei Shi. Not even being snobby, I'm legit curious. I would use it in a heartbeat if you can tell me how to.
    There is one thing. That is impossible. With all the hide phases, etc. You just have to take into account that while you may be delaying AMoC you have to be delaying BS which is already a lesser damaging ability to begin with. I can do one thing. Link both mine and Tehterorkkar's logs of lei shi and show you that AMoC is the better choice.

    There is his pet. The fight lasted 408 seconds. Blink strike did 1,275,676 damage.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%B3rz/advanced

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3854&e=4262


    There is me. The fight lasted 375 seconds. AMoC did 1,581,783 damage.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...stool/advanced

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...?s=1637&e=2012

    *I didn't have the 4% increased physical damage taken debuff* I just had it once at the start with my stampede pet.


    That is a 306,107 damage difference and his fight lasted longer. I know gear is a factor but that was before I had my 4 piece mind you. We have about the same ilvl so the damage should/wouldn't differentiate too much.

    Now I know you will bring up the argument "What about the focus cost?" way ahead of you.

    My arcane shot did 2,792,992 damage while his did 2,701,721. My SrS did 1,957,733 damage while his did 1,391,114 (felt the need to add this since during the add phase I put up SrS on the add we're focusing). My cobra shot did 1,869,464 damage while his did 1,083,035 damage. My glaive toss did 2,248,731 damage while his did 1,835,274 damage. My pet's kill command did 4,925,335 damage while his did 4,050,398 damage. Keep in mind his fight lasted 33 seconds more which means 33 more globals than I had and I didn't have the physical vulnerability buff which means AMoC would have been at about 1,625,843.276 damage (calculated the first 25 seconds/ticks already with the debuff with a ~30% crit chance, so there is no error in my math) putting it 350,167.276 damage ahead of his blink strike. I could do all the other physical damage abilities but I think you get it.

    And that is what the wasted GCDs will get you.

    So you can use blink strike but then you will be losing 350,167.276 damage and 15 GCDs.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2012-12-08 at 06:46 PM.

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  10. #10
    well a 3 ilvl difference is pretty significant. My BS did 1,895,153 damage and my fight was 46 seconds shorter than yours, so you had 46 more globals and a possible full duration MoC. But, I am 4 ilvls ahead of you. Though, even with the reduced globals, both with fight length and using BS, I had 47 KC's in that fight and you had 45. And again my fight was 46 seconds shorter. However, I guess all that is irrelevant, since you did outdps me in the end so I guess overall there is something to your point.

    So I guess i'll have to try it out myself next time. It will almost never run it's full duration though so I dunnu, i'm still pretty skeptical. If anything, LR looks more attractive.

    P.S.: shameless plug, I have another thread open where I am trying to figure out why my dps on protectors is always on the lower end of the hunter spectrum. You utterly destroyed me on that fight. I seem to be missing something.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    well a 3 ilvl difference is pretty significant. My BS did 1,895,153 damage and my fight was 46 seconds shorter than yours, so you had 46 more globals and a possible full duration MoC. But, I am 4 ilvls ahead of you. Though, even with the reduced globals, both with fight length and using BS, I had 47 KC's in that fight and you had 45. And again my fight was 46 seconds shorter. However, I guess all that is irrelevant, since you did outdps me in the end so I guess overall there is something to your point.

    So I guess i'll have to try it out myself next time. It will almost never run it's full duration though so I dunnu, i'm still pretty skeptical. If anything, LR looks more attractive.

    P.S.: shameless plug, I have another thread open where I am trying to figure out why my dps on protectors is always on the lower end of the hunter spectrum. You utterly destroyed me on that fight. I seem to be missing something.
    Yeah idk man it's just got to be phase RNG. I also didn't have the physical damage debuff active during that fight so it kind of hurt me a bit. They are all pretty close dps wise so AMoC must've been bad with my phase RNG.

    In regards to protectors, I'm probably doing what you are doing.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2012-12-08 at 07:57 PM.

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  12. #12
    I feel that it's depends a lot on the fight right now. On Garalon and Mel'jarak I felt that Blink Strike was a lot more useful. On Garalon it was nice as a pet charge to one of the legs, dealing good damage to it as well as not wasting any damage. On Mel'jarak it was a good filler as I wanted the damage on one pack, but at the same time not waste focus on anything other than AoE.
    But on fights like Ta'yak and Zor'lok it's probably better with LR or aMoC. Personally I like LR, as the focus cost is really annoying to get around as well as the duration being long and hard to handle.

  13. #13
    I'm definitely not using Blink Strike over Crows, on the basis that I don't want yet another short cooldown talent shoved down my throat and into my overcrowded rotation.

    Except on Garalon. I'll totally use Blink Strike on Garalon.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Penguintamer View Post
    I'm definitely not using Blink Strike over Crows, on the basis that I don't want yet another short cooldown talent shoved down my throat and into my overcrowded rotation.

    Except on Garalon. I'll totally use Blink Strike on Garalon.
    100% blink strike damage on his legs seems better than AMoC damage on him. I might have to try this next time I kill him XD.

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  15. #15
    while considering the changed LR, it essentially comes down to this: (empirical results, through testing on dummies and a bit of raiding)
    amoc: best dmg, long duration dot (30sec), high focus thus a bit trickier to use
    LR: lower dmg, (slightly less but still) long duration dot (~20sec). free
    BS: lower dmg(but similar to LR), instant dmg (burst). free. teleports pet to boss.

    Long story short: amoc for dmg, BS for utility, LR is useless in its current state.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    while considering the changed LR, it essentially comes down to this: (empirical results, through testing on dummies and a bit of raiding)
    amoc: best dmg, long duration dot (30sec), high focus thus a bit trickier to use
    LR: lower dmg, (slightly less but still) long duration dot (~20sec). free
    BS: lower dmg(but similar to LR), instant dmg (burst). free. teleports pet to boss.

    Long story short: amoc for dmg, BS for utility, LR is useless in its current state.
    i don't see how people claim LR is useless... hell FD in a 7-10 minute fight has LR within 500 DPS of AMoC for me in both SV and BM. Its like people have said "its changed that means it sucks" and not really looked at the ability.

    i just did FD again fully buffed in my gear a 7 minute fight and AmoC is 212 DPS ahead of LR as survival..
    Last edited by Nemesis003; 2012-12-08 at 10:05 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    Its like people have said "its changed that means it sucks" and not really looked at the ability.
    Its like people have said "its changed, but look that doesn't mean its a nerf" and not really looked at the ability.
    the first thing I did when I logged in, was to go an test the new LR for like half an hour on dummies. then did the same with amoc and blink. was BM though. conclusion: aMoC > LR >= BS

    just logged in an shot at a carrotsack thingy (the 1h our mobile targetdummy) as SV.
    without any buffs/proccs (no trinkets, no scope), LR hit once for 10586, and 6 times for 15879 => 105860 dmg
    aMoC hit for 30x for 5913 = 177390dmg

    the direct damage difference is huge, thats why I stopped even thinking about using LR. allthough LR has the 60focus advantage, and probably gains the 10% crit from pet ferocity, bringig it nearer to amoc, I still have neglected using it. and you just simmed and proved me right. thanks :-)
    I don't see any reason to use LR, as it's basically a little weaker/shorter dur/shorter CD aMoC that does less dps.
    LR has it's niche bonus when cleaving and using readiness. but amoc also has its weird bonus execute mechanic which can be usefull on a seldom encounter.

    edit: aMoC has no occasional parries...
    Last edited by TheTrueM4gg0t; 2012-12-09 at 12:03 AM.

  18. #18
    aMoC is way better, here's the results i get in FD with the best buffs/debuffs and the default fight length (5 min) ->

    aMoC - 103750.76
    BS - 101317.15

    So a 2433.61 dps difference

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    LR hit once for 10586, and 6 times for 15879 => 105860 dmg
    aMoC hit for 30x for 5913 = 177390dmg
    Yea but within those 30 secs you can use 2 LR's. Obviously just comparing total ability dmg, AMoC will be higher cuz it's a longer cd/duration.
    AMoC 30 secs = 177390 dmg according to your tests, LR 30 secs would be = 211720

    On fights that are shorter than 5 mins, i'd say AMoC is the best. But a lot of the fights (atleast for me) are just above 5 mins where I just barely get the second stampede and and readiness off. And usually AMoC is on cd at that point and I end up refreshing the cd by readiness and then popping it once. Whereas if I used LR, i'd get two off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    aMoC is way better, here's the results i get in FD with the best buffs/debuffs and the default fight length (5 min) ->

    aMoC - 103750.76
    BS - 101317.15

    So a 2433.61 dps difference
    That is based on a patchwerk style fight with no target switching and no boss immunity phases. For those, yes everyone agrees AMoC is the better choice, LR coming in at a close second and even out doing AMoC in some cases (focus cost and fight length dependant). But for other fights BS pulls up due to the fact that you can use it on CD everytime without wasting any part of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    100% blink strike damage on his legs seems better than AMoC damage on him. I might have to try this next time I kill him XD.
    I really wanna try it now as well XD. But I guess it depends on your role too. I usually am the one stuck with pheromones duty, in which case AMoC would probably be better since I do end up getting out of range of the boss a couple times.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 10:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Yeah idk man it's just got to be phase RNG. I also didn't have the physical damage debuff active during that fight so it kind of hurt me a bit. They are all pretty close dps wise so AMoC must've been bad with my phase RNG.

    In regards to protectors, I'm probably doing what you are doing.
    That's what I mean though, the phase RNG is what devalues AMoC. I mean ofcourse if you get lucky and get more get aways then hides, AMoC will be better. But I don't want to cross my fingers each fight. If you have shitty rng AMoC will do terrible. If you're lucky, AMoC will do pretty good. Whereas BS will always do pretty good regardless of RNG.

    I seem to be doing something fundamentally wrong with cd management if what you're doing is the right way. I have RF and BW macroed together. (since auto shots do a considerable amount of dmg and once I get 4 pc, the extra focus regen will help since i'll be using a lot of focus during back to back BW's.) But you seem to not be stacking them. Are we supposed to do it like back in cata ? not stack BW with RF/haste effects ?
    Last edited by Saoron; 2012-12-09 at 04:51 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    aMoC is way better, here's the results i get in FD with the best buffs/debuffs and the default fight length (5 min) ->

    aMoC - 103750.76
    BS - 101317.15

    So a 2433.61 dps difference
    that changes drastically with gear, for me on FD i lose DPS now with AMoC on any fight over 5 minutes.

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