Thread: PVP now?

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  1. #1

    PVP now?

    I wanted to ask everyone how they're doing in pvp since the nerfs, specifically 3s. I haven't had the chance to do my arena for the week and am curious just how bad it is now?

    For the record I'm perfectly happy playing a spec other than demo, hell I pvp'd as affliction for just about 6 years until it became crap this xpac.
    Last edited by Felshara; 2012-12-06 at 03:26 AM.

  2. #2
    Keyboard Turner
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    Not so much nerfed, i tried aff and wow... switch back to demon asap..

    Im ok with nerfs.

  3. #3
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Playing destruction now with sacrificed succubus. Affliction is pretty worthless except for shadowcleave, demonology is just useless at high rating now, and destruction, yeah well, you force them to focus on you by casting chaosbolt while your warrior partner is killing someone....

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Playing destruction now with sacrificed succubus. Affliction is pretty worthless except for shadowcleave, demonology is just useless at high rating now, and destruction, yeah well, you force them to focus on you by casting chaosbolt while your warrior partner is killing someone....
    Why would you play with Succubus sacrified? Don't you get seduction??

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Why would you play with Succubus sacrified? Don't you get seduction??
    Ya, this seems like a mistake to me. Felhunter is usually the way to go for GrimSac. Maybe Voidwalker if you are the train target and you want the extra health for Dark Regen/Healthstone.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmasca1 View Post
    Ya, this seems like a mistake to me. Felhunter is usually the way to go for GrimSac. Maybe Voidwalker if you are the train target and you want the extra health for Dark Regen/Healthstone.
    Completely agree, would be a different matter if seduction didn't require channeling / you got whiplash, but as of right now, sacrificing a succubus is pretty useless.

    Imp / felhunter / VW are all pretty useful though.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Completely agree, would be a different matter if seduction didn't require channeling / you got whiplash, but as of right now, sacrificing a succubus is pretty useless.

    Imp / felhunter / VW are all pretty useful though.
    Imp not so much as the healing effect from not sacrificing him is actually better than the weak dispel we gain from doing it. It's either Fel Hunter or VW depending on the comp you're facing and who they will most likely sit on.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 03:01 PM ----------

    Why didn't we get Whiplash for sacrificing the Succubus? Seduction not only shares a DR with Fear, it needs to be channeled as well. Give it a cast time, share DR with Fear but let us Seduce one target and Fear another. It would finally be useful.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-06 at 03:07 PM ----------

    Anyways, to answer the actual question.

    Demo will take some adjusting to get good at again. The previous playstyle just involved nursing your DF while making sure you don't cast HoG 24 seconds before you want to burst. With this change I'll just go back to spamming ToC, which I actually prefer. ToC still has plenty of damage output, especially when used with CD's and if you can coordinate burst around the time when Doom will tick you have some crazy damage, especially if you got Doom up with a few procs.

    The change to Destro with GoSac also hasn't hurt us as much as I thought it would, mainly because we didn't lose any total damage and the DoT is only 3 seconds. Nobody is going to purge that DoT off and I've actually killed some people with it that thought they were fine and tried to run LoS instead of heal.

    TBH, I'll just be running 3s with my Feral buddy which should be fairly good. Especially once you combine Feral CC with ours, add a Holy Pally in and realize how great Feral Soul Swap can be for burst.

  8. #8
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Why would you play with Succubus sacrified? Don't you get seduction??
    Let's just say there is a little bug with seduce and KJC that makes it pretty amazing to have, especially when combined with havoc.
    And the fact that the seduce you get doesn't share DR with fear
    Last edited by Nicola; 2012-12-07 at 02:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Let's just say there is a little bug with seduce and KJC that makes it pretty amazing to have, especially when combined with havoc.
    And the fact that the seduce you get doesn't share DR with fear
    You talking about the Banish/Havoc gimmick? They said the other day it's probably going to be changed. Check GC's twitter. Likewise, that Seduce DR thing sounds like a bug to me.

  10. #10
    The Grimoire seduce doesn't DR with fear, its always been like that. It does DR with polymorph.

  11. #11
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmasca1 View Post
    You talking about the Banish/Havoc gimmick? They said the other day it's probably going to be changed. Check GC's twitter. Likewise, that Seduce DR thing sounds like a bug to me.
    I mean the part where you can cast other spells while channeling seduce when you use KJC...

  12. #12
    Well....I've been playing around a bit.

    Destro is OK, if you're left alone to build (Yeah yeah, I know I know)
    Affliction just doesn't have the pressure it needs.
    Demo is..................not as bad as it could be, but certainly not as good as it was.


    Right now, we're stuck in the "We must have a buff coming soon surely" phase, personally think Affliction has to get some PvP love soon or it could remain buried for the whole of the expansion (5.2 being end of season I assume, and if nothing comes then, it probably won't for a while )

    Destro is just too squishy, ohh what I would give for even 1/4 of the control a Mage has (No...I am NOT rerolling a Mage tyvm) but just need something to be able to have enough time to build Embers and not be a sitting duck for the rest of the time.

    Demo.....Ohh Demo how we love thee......1 day it shall be good again, I'm sure of it!!!

  13. #13
    I’ve done a lot of 3s as all 3 specs since the 5.1 patch and the CW nerf. I’m currently running Affliction shadowplay at 2300 MMR, so not only am I running something at decent ratings, I get to see what other locks are running at high ratings. NEVER MIND, THERE ARE NO LOCKS AT HIGH RATINGS NOW! (jk ). Here’s my take on the 3 specs currently.

    Affliction – I feel that Affliction is probably our best overall spec now, though it’s a far way off from being “good.” The KJC buff helped Affliction the most. Not having playing Affliction in PvP until this week, I was actually surprised how much damage it does. I’m using Sac spec generally and usually sac the Imp to dispel my healer out of any CC. The way damage is in Affliction is way different now – it’s a pretty strong single-target damage spec, but unlike other the other warlock specs and other single-target damage specs (Destro, Warriors, Hunters, etc) – it’s not as reliant on cooldowns/Dark Soul. With the way the game is now, offensive cooldowns and stacking offensive cooldowns is the best way to get kills, but without those cooldowns, it’s very hard to force any major defensive CDs. If you played Demo, you know it’s very hard to get a kill without Dark Soul. That’s not the way Affliction is, even though DS is still good for Affliction. I was actually able to do significant damage all game, but the compromise is you don’t have as much top end burst as Demo/Destro or other burst specs.

    The biggest negatives about Affliction are that it’s really cast reliant, the MoP dispel system and it has the least survivability of all warlock specs. Affliction relied on passive survivability like Soul Link and self-healing. The defensive cooldowns we have now, while feel great for Demo/Destro, don’t suit Affliction well because you aren’t going to get many quick kills. The cast reliance isn’t as bad now with the KJC buff, but I could see playing without KJC being a huge pain. The cooldown on dispel is better than facing a shaman in Cata who could dispel a curse + magic and heal their teammate with dispel while dropping totems during the UA silence. But it’s still annoying getting a 10 stack agony get dispelled.

    Comps Affliction works well in: DoT caster comps, mage/lock, warrior/lock
    Score out of 10 (1 being an ele shaman, 10 being a pre 5.1 warr): 4/10 (pre 5.1 score – 2.5/10)

    Demonology – Don’t fool yourself - Demo was ridiculously overpowered pre 5.1, right up there with mages and warriors. It had the best one-shot macro, the highest overall damage (though AoE damage was a big factor), and a permanent damage reduction with Aura of Enfeeblement. With the patch and the aura gone, Demo was still pretty decent and did even more damage since you didn’t have to put up the aura anymore, but relied heavily on the one-shot macro (which was even more scary with the increased PvP power on weapon change). With the CW nerf, burst is pretty severed and Demo is really a shadow of what it was a couple weeks ago and with the lack of the threat of bursting someone down in a few seconds gone, teams can play much more offensively and put you in bad positions without many repercussions. Demo still has its many positives. The knockoff is amazing, the burst is still good, 25% MS from Wrathguard, almost everything is instant cast/passive damage, and it has decent to high sustained damage.

    The problem with Demo is that it just doesn’t excel at anything anymore, even comparing to our other specs, let alone other classes. Destro now has higher burst granted you can get it off (not impossible, esp w/ KJC and some planning). Affliction has better sustained pressure. Demo brings some nice utility on Z-axis maps and the 25% MS. The only thing Demo does better than the other specs though is damage and effectiveness while being trained. Demo can remain at like 90%+ effectiveness when focused while Affliction is like 60% and Destro is around 75%. Because of this though, Demo has the best natural synergy with melee partners that aren’t sat on as often.

    Comps Affliction works well in: Warrior/Lock, any comp as before but just not nearly as good.
    Score out of 10: 3.5/10 (pre 5.1 score – 9.5/10)

    Destruction – After the CW nerf, Destruction was the spec that I first leaned to with my Shadowplay team. Although the CB/Sac burst got slightly nerfed, the overall damage seemed better because of better ember generation with the Conflag/RoF changes, and KJC letting you get more Incinerates and CBs off. While the overall damage seemed decent, it’s not as high as Aff or Demo still. After a good first night of Qing, we did pretty well beating a few rank 1 teams including Kollektiv/Original/Khryl. As we played more though, we were having trouble beating even 2k-2100 teams that could ignore me for the most part while having the awareness to shut down my Chaos Bolts. On the plus side, Destro still has the best burst (yet fairly difficult to set up properly) and survivability because of Ember Tap. But outside of Dark Soul, the burst is mediocre and not enough reward for the effort it takes to burst without CDs. Good teams can ignore a Destro Lock yet stop their burst, which renders Destro pretty useless. It’s a great RBG and BG spec and maybe for beating people under 2k with less awareness, but much harder to set up a kill against good opponents.

    One thing I will say though is that Destro has pretty solid synergy with other casters, especially mages since they open opportunities for you to free cast and you can time Chaos Bolts with Deep Freezes pretty easily. Although I believe Destro is slightly weaker overall for arena than Affliction, if you want to play the best comp a warlock can play, Destro Lock/Mage/Resto Shaman or Resto Druid is your best bet. In return of the good caster synergy though, the synergy with melee is practically zero, although there might be an exception here or there.

    Comps Destro works : MLS/MLD, any caster cleave
    Score out of 10: 3.5/10

  14. #14
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    May I know how you happen to play shadowplay at 2.3k MMR on Bloodlust when the highest rated shadowplay is only 1.7k rated?
    Or are you lying about how you've played against rank 1 teams such as Kollektiv/Original/Khryl ?
    Last edited by Nicola; 2012-12-08 at 04:25 AM.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Rec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    May I know how you happen to play shadowplay at 2.3k MMR on Bloodlust when the highest rated shadowplay is only 1.7k rated?
    Think I found the answer for you. : )

    Edit: Also last I checked, the Armory ladders were bugged, unsure if they did fix that.

  16. #16
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rec View Post
    Think I found the answer for you. : )
    All rating and MMR above 2.2k got reset to 2.2k, a 1.7k rated team won't be sitting on 2.3k MMR after the reset...

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Rec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    All rating and MMR above 2.2k got reset to 2.2k, a 1.7k rated team won't be sitting on 2.3k MMR after the reset...
    Why not?

    10c

  18. #18
    Complicated difference between MMR and CR is complicated.

  19. #19
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rec View Post
    Why not?

    10c
    Cba to explain how MMR works, it just ain't possible, especially not when not everyone in the team has 1.8k rating achi....

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    May I know how you happen to play shadowplay at 2.3k MMR on Bloodlust when the highest rated shadowplay is only 1.7k rated?
    Or are you lying about how you've played against rank 1 teams such as Kollektiv/Original/Khryl ?
    Fair question. Bloodlust is in our region and pool of battlegroups that we queue into. I'm on Vengeance BG, which is one the four west coast BGs. After a certain time in the Q, it allows us to match against teams in our regions (Bloodlust, Cyclone and Reckoning BGs).

    Hope that clears it up/provides proof.

    Here is the armory link to our team:
    us.battle.net/wow/en/arena/korgath/3v3/Not%20OP/
    s209.beta.photobucket.com/user/Canadianpimp06/media/WoWScrnShot_120312_233829.jpg.html

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