1. #1

    No more BM gear = can't get PvE BiS anymore

    Does the fact some specs can no longer get best-in-slot gear if they hit 50 after 1.6 comes out bother anyone else?

    Tonight I spent farming comms so that I could get 2 battlemaster shells on my operative healer. The operative healer PvP bonus is incredibly good (15% more AoE healing) and it's used in PvE BiS sets. You take the expertise mods out and use PvE mods and armorings with the PvP set bonus. Battlemaster shells are the only way to get that set bonus without getting expertise (such as on a WH/EWH armoring) and as of the next patch you will not be able to do this.

    So basically, for some classes BiS is unobtainable after the next patch and there is no note on how they will address that.
    Operative healer is the one I know best, but I've heard there are other specs that use a PvP set bonus in PvE as well such as hybrid sorc dps, so it's a fairly important issue to more than just one spec.
    Last edited by Ciah; 2012-12-11 at 05:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahippo View Post
    We are gunna use some dust brown to paint some happy little tornados here, and one more here. Then we are going to use some white to paint happy little wind blasts here. Just dab the brush along the base of al akir, and there you have it. THE GAYEST FIGHT EVER

  2. #2
    I'm quite sure it will be addressed sooner than later.

  3. #3
    They have a similar discussion over at mmo-mechanics.com. However, you can still aquire both set bonuses, the only question is if the setbonus is better than the loss in stats and how Bioware things to address the issue that new operative healer won't have the same chance as old operatives (I leveld my operative from 39 to 47 in 2,5 days, however I won't be able to get to 50 in time.

    Yes, other people do have the same concern but to really make an important issue of it you need to be prepared with stat comparison before and after to make clear that it will be a really big loss.

    A current dreadmaster armoring for operatives has 72 Cunning and 52 Endurance. An Elite War Hero armoring has 39 of each.

    Thats a total loss of 66 in Cunning and 26 in Endurance.

    Now... is that a game changer?

  4. #4
    The Patient
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    Well you can still get BiS...it just means that the BiS wll be slightly less effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Thats a total loss of 66 in Cunning and 26 in Endurance.

    Now... is that a game changer?
    The difference will be slightly more than that when you factor in stat boosts from skill points but I get your point (a good point).....the change is not massive. Missing a heal or an over heal or 2 over the course of a boss fight will probably affect your healing output a lot more.

  5. #5
    Well 66 cunning 26 endurance isn't a huge game changer, true. It is something though, and fights like NiM Kephess 16man demand you find every single little something to optimize.

    Besides, it's less the gear itself and more the precedent it sets. Anyone who levels after 1.6, even if they were to put in infinite time and effort to get that extra boost, will be unable to. The paradigm of MMOs like SWTOR is presenting an even playing field if you put in the time and effort... kinda weird for that to not be the case anymore.


    Here's an example... imagine the outcry if the Founder title granted you 66 mainstat.
    Last edited by Ciah; 2012-12-11 at 08:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahippo View Post
    We are gunna use some dust brown to paint some happy little tornados here, and one more here. Then we are going to use some white to paint happy little wind blasts here. Just dab the brush along the base of al akir, and there you have it. THE GAYEST FIGHT EVER

  6. #6
    @Ciah

    I totally get what you are saying and personally I wouldn't mind if you could craft Battlemaster shells with setbonus like I also wouldn't mind to be able to craft Rakata shells with setbonus.

    However the question is, if saying that this difference may change your success in the game already indicates that each and everyone of your raid is performing 100% which isn't possbile. Practically speaking... beating kephess would have to bring each of your raid down to 1% in BIS equipment (everyone) and because you don't have BIS you drop dead and you can't beat the encounter.

    It is a disadvantage per se... I think everyone can agree on that and I hope we'll se a solution for this and not a solution for the worse but for the better but... it is not an excuse to say that you can't beat current content because of this.

  7. #7
    Where did I ever say it was my excuse for not being able to down content? Stop putting words in my mouth please.
    I am not particularly worried about the stat loss myself (especially since it doesn't affect my main that has the shells already, merely anyone who levels after this patch or alts that I may make)

    I am concerned about the precedent of removing something that gives a concrete advantage, once a good part of the population has already gotten it. It's terrible game design and it makes me worried. I am posting it here to know if anyone has heard if BW will be addressing this or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahippo View Post
    We are gunna use some dust brown to paint some happy little tornados here, and one more here. Then we are going to use some white to paint happy little wind blasts here. Just dab the brush along the base of al akir, and there you have it. THE GAYEST FIGHT EVER

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    So basically, for some classes BiS is unobtainable after the next patch
    first off, that's not true. You can still get BiS with slightly lower stats, not to mention that BiS is and always will be what is available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    Well 66 cunning 26 endurance isn't a huge game changer, true. It is something though, and fights like NiM Kephess 16man demand you find every single little something to optimize.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    Where did I ever say it was my excuse for not being able to down content? Stop putting words in my mouth please.
    Your quote above indicates that every inch is necessary to defeat kephess in NM.... however some people write that one of their people was in half PvP gear because he forgot about it and they defeated kephess.... so what is now to be believed? Not to mention that to my experience... 16man is not what it once was in other operations.... and more importantly... slight stat loss will be better negated because you have more people = you as indivudal's value is less high than in 8man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    I am concerned about the precedent of removing something that gives a concrete advantage, once a good part of the population has already gotten it. It's terrible game design and it makes me worried. I am posting it here to know if anyone has heard if BW will be addressing this or not.
    "Terrible"... is such a strong word. If you can still defeat the hardest encounter in the game with this "new BIS gear"... I would call it bad but not terrible. Terrible would be if you wouldn't be able to compete on the same level as others and therefor wouldn't be taken along.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    first off, that's not true. You can still get BiS with slightly lower stats, not to mention that BiS is and always will be what is available.
    thats not bis.

    op: If I were in charge I would remove pvp set bonuses from old pvp sets and reduce the set bonus of the current scoundrel healing set.

  10. #10
    I'm pretty sure any operative with current BiS would fire you right on the spot after this suggestion.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    first off, that's not true. You can still get BiS with slightly lower stats, not to mention that BiS is and always will be what is available.
    Perhaps you misunderstand what BEST in slot means, but anything that is slightly lower stats than the best that people can wear is not BiS lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Your quote above indicates that every inch is necessary to defeat kephess in NM.... however some people write that one of their people was in half PvP gear because he forgot about it and they defeated kephess.... so what is now to be believed? Not to mention that to my experience... 16man is not what it once was in other operations.... and more importantly... slight stat loss will be better negated because you have more people = you as indivudal's value is less high than in 8man.
    I don't even know where to start with how wrong this post is /facepalm
    For starters, you're thinking of 8man when you say people have killed NiM Kephess.
    You don't need everyone in BiS for NiM Kephess 8man and it's a joke compared to 16man. End of story.

    I specified 16man- last I checked only six guilds have even gotten to Kephess on 16man, and nobody has killed him yet.
    Considering how incredibly tightly tuned that fight is, I'd say yeah anyone working on that fight who is 66 cunning less than what they should have is in fact doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    "Terrible"... is such a strong word. If you can still defeat the hardest encounter in the game with this "new BIS gear"... I would call it bad but not terrible. Terrible would be if you wouldn't be able to compete on the same level as others and therefor wouldn't be taken along.
    Considering you are misinformed and nobody has yet defeated the hardest encounter in the game, I'm going to stand by my statement.
    If I were a guild working on 16man NiM Kephess after 1.6 dropped, I absolutely would bench people who didn't have Battlemaster shells for their BiS.

    This kind of fight requires everyone being completely perfect the entire attempt. Period. Given two players that play on this level, but one of them leveled before 1.6 and one of them leveled after 1.6, the person who is 66 cunning short is going to be passed even though they are both properly skilled for the fight. And that's terrible game design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    I'm pretty sure any operative with current BiS would fire you right on the spot after this suggestion.
    Even though I have operative BiS* (well, I will once the servers come up- getting my 27 mods crafted right now :P) I would welcome the removal of the PvP set bonus from BM shells.
    I'd love to not be forced to wear the fugly BM gear for the set bonus. Could put an EWH armoring in a custom gear that looks nice... plus it would solve the problem of pre-1.6 players having more mainstat. Sadly I haven't heard of any plans from BW to do this.

    *I'm also gonna be short the stupid earpiece that never drops and nobody can craft it /rage
    Last edited by Ciah; 2012-12-11 at 10:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seahippo View Post
    We are gunna use some dust brown to paint some happy little tornados here, and one more here. Then we are going to use some white to paint happy little wind blasts here. Just dab the brush along the base of al akir, and there you have it. THE GAYEST FIGHT EVER

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    Perhaps you misunderstand what BEST in slot means, but anything that is slightly lower stats than the best that people can wear is not BiS lmao
    You can't call anything BIS if people can't obtain it anymore. Every BiS list after 1.6 has to have to versions then... old BiS and new BiS. But I'm sure I don't understand what is BiS post 1.6 for new operatives.... /facepalm

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    I don't even know where to start with how wrong this post is /facepalm
    For starters, you're thinking of 8man when you say people have killed NiM Kephess.
    You don't need everyone in BiS for NiM Kephess 8man and it's a joke compared to 16man. End of story.

    I specified 16man- last I checked only six guilds have even gotten to Kephess on 16man, and nobody has killed him yet.
    Considering how incredibly tightly tuned that fight is, I'd say yeah anyone working on that fight who is 66 cunning less than what they should have is in fact doing it wrong.
    Well good to hear that 16man is in fact more difficult which doesn't hold true to every 16man raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    Considering you are misinformed and nobody has yet defeated the hardest encounter in the game, I'm going to stand by my statement.
    If I were a guild working on 16man NiM Kephess after 1.6 dropped, I absolutely would bench people who didn't have Battlemaster shells for their BiS.

    This kind of fight requires everyone being completely perfect the entire attempt. Period. Given two players that play on this level, but one of them leveled before 1.6 and one of them leveled after 1.6, the person who is 66 cunning short is going to be passed even though they are both properly skilled for the fight. And that's terrible game design.
    So you are saying that you need 66 cunning, 26 Endurance and whatever addtional bonuse coming from these stats on your operative healers to beat this encounter? Otherwise your claim makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciah View Post
    Even though I have operative BiS now* (well, I will once the servers come up- getting my 27 mods crafted right now :P) I would welcome the removal of the PvP set bonus from BM shells.
    I'd love to not be forced to wear the fugly BM gear for the set bonus. Could put an EWH armoring in a custom gear that looks nice... plus it would solve the problem of pre-1.6 players having more power. Sadly I haven't heard of any plans from BW to do this.

    *I'm also short the stupid earpiece that never drops and nobody can craft it /rage
    So you'd rather see the set bonus weakened/ taken out of the game. I don't see how that would be an improvement as even with post 1.6 obtainable BiS, the set bonus would still outshine the loss in stats or not?

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