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  1. #1

    Resto Druids and Spirit.

    Hello all!

    I have read many guides about what to do when it comes too Spirit. From the guide on here, The WoW forums and even EJ itself. But I myself have 9260 spirit and 11,226 Combat Regen currently and not even with the "Scroll of Revered Ancestors" and Innervate...it just feels like I don't have the mana regen I need. Should it be higher? How much is too much?

    Now I am not spamming rejuv and regrowth every second by any means, but as some other druids have said...Our spells cost ALOT of mana compared to other classes.

    Rejuvination - 9,600 Mana (Without the 2 peice which I don't have)
    Wild Growth - 13,740 Mana
    Regrowth - 17,820 Mana (For when you need to heal someone in an "ohshit" moment and cant wait for a clearcasting proc)
    Tranquility - 16,260 Mana

    Etc and the list goes on. I just feel a bit lost, like no matter how much spirit I end up having, It is just never enough.

  2. #2
    Personally I run with 7500 spirit when I'm healing. That's enough for me and I don't run oom usually. I play just play very mana efficiently and adjust depending on the fight. I don't have the 2 set.

  3. #3
    I now have my 2-set, in last nights raid I ran about 9200 spirit, but flasked and ate for int as an experiment. I had absolutely no mana problems at all. However, we run 3 healers on most fights, cuz it's just safer, so I use HoTW to DPS at least once per fight, often twice taking a minute and a half out of my healing but adding a good amount of DPS to the fight at no mana cost. I'm not sure if that would be enough spirit otherwise, but it was plenty for me.

  4. #4
    I'm not an expert on resto druid, but I've been healing some as my offspec (normally boomkin) and I run out of mana after 8 minutes of fight, with around 7k spirit after flask (normal modes healing, you never said if your mana problem is for normal or heroic). Sometimes the issue is not you, but people taking too much damage. Also depends on what fight and how many healers you are using, not the same 2 healing or 3 healing encounters.

  5. #5
    First, are you talking about healing 10 man or 25 man;normal or heroic bosses;or pvp. Its not clear though im going to assume pve 10 man normals.

    I typically run around 7.5k+ spirit - use int flask and int food. The idea is to have stronger heals less often than trying to get way more spirit to cast weaker spells more often.

    Its very easy to burn your mana on too many rejuvs or WG. Try not to use them wastefully (IE work to lower your overhealing and don't just blanket the raid with them nonstop).

    Maybe your raid is taking too much avoidable damage, or maybe its a fight you should be 3 healing and not 2 healing (if 10 man)

    In short, its you (overhealing / not being efficient), or its them (taking too much damage, wrong strats, etc) - because at 9k spirit, that should be plenty. At least without getting more specific info from yah

    On the bright side, when you do get your 2 piece, it does help some

  6. #6
    I was in the same situation as you are, don't know if we did the same mistakes but.. Try to not use wildgrowth when you don't need to, if u spam it u will go oom quite quickly. Try to predict damage and then u will have less "oh shit" moments and remember to use your swiftmend as much as possible. I don't know what more to say without seeing some logs .

  7. #7
    Is there any need for more Spirit at heroics, i have rerolled from holy pala to Rdrood for our HC progressing [still at 4/16HC] cause we have played until i start playing Rdrood every boss with 2 Hpallys. And every Rdrood i watch in the armory and play on a high lvl use 10k-11k or more spirit, but in forums everyone say something abaout 7500-9000k. Atm i play with 9500 and it´s still okey, but the hard fights are still coming next time and so i can test more spirit before.


    greetz

  8. #8
    Sounds to be like you're just healing too much too frequently. I run with a shaman and a pally (myself resto druid) and on the fights we 3 heal I run with 7k spirit plus the spirit flask and never have mana issues. End most fights between 30-50k hps and around 40-50k mana left. We've only done first 4 in MV and 1 in HoF though (10 man). I go DPS on the 2 heal fights though so I can't speak to those.

  9. #9
    We just cleared normal (16/16) with me usually around 9k spir. Curious to see how much I'll have to tweak after we start heroics, specially on long fights like HM Will of Emp...

  10. #10
    I am running around 7.2k Spirit and find it fine, yes there are times when i run out of mana but thats from those panic moments when you don't heal efficiently enough that can be covered with a flask of focus.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gramla View Post
    Is there any need for more Spirit at heroics, i have rerolled from holy pala to Rdrood for our HC progressing [still at 4/16HC] cause we have played until i start playing Rdrood every boss with 2 Hpallys. And every Rdrood i watch in the armory and play on a high lvl use 10k-11k or more spirit, but in forums everyone say something abaout 7500-9000k. Atm i play with 9500 and it´s still okey, but the hard fights are still coming next time and so i can test more spirit before.
    greetz
    Most of those high level druids you are seeing are in 25 man guilds, where spirit is more useful. It sounds like you are doing 10 mans, where throughput is much more important. In heroics I would say you need less spirit, as by then, you know all the fights and can plan your mana better. Your spells need to be stronger for heroics as well. Longevity will be up to your efficiency. If someone could play perfectly, I'm sure they could get away with as little as 5k spirit. Since that's impossible, 7-8k seems to be a decent compromise between power and longevity.

  12. #12
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    I hate to state the obvious but how is your LB uptime, are you making sure to utilize your OOC procs? are you waiting too long to innervate, good rule of thumb is anytime you're below 75 percent, it's a low c/d so can usually use it multiple times. I run with a little under 8k and am just the swing healer in our group and am usually dps'ing. I have no problem using WG on c/d but I am glyphed for it. HC content no doubt takes more spirit but for normal 8k should do ya just fine.

  13. #13
    11500 - 12000 mana regen for heroic 25s is what you should be aiming for. Anymore is not really necessary unless you're reforging/gemming for particular fights.

  14. #14
    I'm sitting at 8.6k spirit at the moment. Healed Garalon 10 HC last night, a fight where you're healing from start to finish and using a lot of Rejuvenation. With one Mana Tide and my innervates + potion, my mana was just right, around 10% at the end of the fight.

    Granted it was farm so I know the damage pattern really well but you can use anywhere from 7.5k to 10k in 10m HC and do your job. Last week, I healed Will HC (another fight where you heal constantly from start to finish) with about 8k Spirit and it was my first time actually finishing the fight, although I had progressed a lot on it and therefore had prior knowledge of the damage. Again, my mana was alright at the end. Wild Growth did most of my healing here.

    As Keiyra pointed out, this could well be inefficient play from either you or the raid rather than a straight regen issue. More information regarding your raid setup and encounters would help.
    Ashr

  15. #15
    For 10 man, 7-8k is the sweet spot. T14 two piece also helps a lot. For 25s, you do want more spirit.

  16. #16
    Okey, thanks for your responses.

  17. #17
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    My main is a 'lock, so I'm not a druid expert, but I've been playing around with my resto druid in alt runs, LFRs, etc. I'm sitting at about 9k Spirit, often throw inefficient heals for no good reason, and never really have a problem. I'm sure if I paid more attention, reforged properly, and got gear to replace some of the odd pieces, I could drop that down to the aforementioned 7-8k easily.

    The trick is to figure out how to use what you've got efficiently, rather than spam "oh crud" buttons. I'd look into one of the many online resto guides (there are quite a few to choose from) - see if you can glean any useful information from them to fit your play style. I'd also look at getting throughput stats (e.g., mastery) over regen stats (e.g., spirit): having your stuff hit (heal) harder often makes it so you need less regen in the first place.

  18. #18
    In ten man heroics, something like 7.5k to 8k is on the low end of enough if you have a good raid that carefully plans cooldowns and don't have retards who eat everything they possibly can.

  19. #19
    My alt raid started doing the MSV heroics tonight, 3/6 in there now - I can safely say that with 10K spirit from gear and a flask (DMC 2/2 and LFR spirit of the sun for trinkets), I feel quite safe in my mana. Duo heal most of the fight with a holy paladin, with a resto shaman (ele MS) for the occasional 3 heal fights we have (Neck to neck with the paladin in output, with the shaman usually reaching 66% of what we do).

    I have to admit, that I personally never understood the concept of having "too much" mana on a resto druid - while I can see the theoretical reasoning behind it, I have never found it to be true in a real raiding enviroment.

    In this raid tier, there's a few things to consider:
    That the bulk of our healing comes from HoT effects - be it actual hots like Rejuv and WG, or effloresence.
    That other healers do not care much, if at all, if they're healing a person up before the hot is done ticking (thus adding to overheal) - in most cases, they won't even know there's a hot there.
    That the majority of heavy raid damage is largely predictable, while the damage that is not, is either inconsequencial and will be healed up by every healer's combined effort through stray AOE healing (think feng's or garajal's bolt damage), or so important that you can't rely on a HoT to heal it back up (think voodoo dolls, Elegon's Arcing right before a protector blows up).

    With that kept in mind, the logical reasoning is that if I plant a hot on a target, it'll most likely not get to run to the end of its duration before it becomes overheal - therefore, having more int will result in it becomming an overheal faster, while more SPIRIT will allow me to keep rejuvs on more targets, thus covering the raid in a protective blanket.
    When we come to predictable bursts of raid damage (such as protector explosions on elegon, explosions on shek'zeer, Unseen strike's on Tayak), more spirit will, once again, allow for a bigger protective blanket before running OOM - the hots will heal for less, but the volume of heals will end out at about the same - and as every other healer will be fighting to top off the raid with their more direct heals, the chance that my hots will last their full duration is slim, but the chance that 6 rejuvs will do more effective healing than 5 is much higher, as I'm ensured that everyone will take damage, and thus for atleast a period, be taking in the ticks.
    Add on top of this, that the numbers for heals now are so incredibly big that the chances you'll overheal (unless you have an extremely good eye for it) are more than likely, it just seems like kind of a waste to me. It was much easier to gauge back in WOTLK (People have 20K hp, my nourish smashes them for 10K, thus I try to heal the one's at half hp with Nourish. If they have more, I rejuv them as it'll tick them back up).

    While I understand this state of mind might not be correct, this is what I've personally had best experience with - Spirit is a cushion that'll allow you to use your more expensive heals more often, while Int is for precision-healing. As druids, our hots do not allow us to do precision-healing well, as our heals aren't up front, but reliant on a time component.
    This is also all in a world where I assume that you are able to keep up with the output that is neccessary to beat a boss - spirit won't help if the tank is still dropping even though you're pumping your heavy heals in to him constantly (EG, doesn't help you do 600K healing over 60 seconds for 10K healing a second, if you're required to do 20K healing a second for 20 seconds, then 5K healing a second for 40 seconds to meet 600K/minute) - but so far, I haven't met a fight like that, maybe apart from undergeared Wind Lord attempts when the tank ran out of cooldowns.


    So in the end? The spirit you're comfortable with, is as much spirit as you feel that you need. Healing is more of a "feelings"-game than DPS is - there's always going to be optimal ways to play, and stats to prioritise (EG, mastery will benefit you more than crit, haste ticks are important), but when it comes to int vs spirit, it's much more a question of playstyle and synergy with your other healers.

    Also, while there's not alot of them, looking through the resto druids in the top 10 guilds worldwide, I've been unable to find any that's been completly disregarding spirit - there's some still sticking to full spirit gems, and some have tentatively started activating red and yellow socket bonuses (and jewelcrafters obviously use int gems over spirit, due to the sheer massive bonus).

  20. #20
    all depends how u raid and play. If your spaming pointless spells to get every bit of heal to increase the meters, then ur gonna need a decent amount of spirit (would not sacrifice int for it tho). By this i mean spamin a regrowth on some1 when its not a proc, or usin a rejuv on some1 thats only taken 20k dmg, or wildgrowth when only 2 ppl have taken 20k dmg etc

    If however u play properly, heal only when needed... 7.5-9k is plenty.

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