Thread: SV opener

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  1. #1

    SV opener

    I have been playing BM since MOP released, however with recent changes SV seems to be about equal to BM in terms of single target so i was gonna run a raid as SV for ever fight just to see how it worked out. I know BMs opener and i can do it well, however how do you do the SV opener, it seems the only thing to reset is AMoC/LR and readiness... everything else seems to be short enough readiness really is not needed.

  2. #2
    I find the SV opener is very clunky, especially with aMoC... the 60focus cost makes you starved quite fast.
    just for the sake of focus reg I hit RapidFire straight at the beginning, and try to get the shots of in this order:
    Serpent > ES > Explotrap > aMoC > GT/Barrage and after second ES reset to straightly reuse ES > BA > GT/Barr
    the reason for explotrap is stacked LnL proccchance (as you will have BA CD up soon again because of readyness).
    unless you have 2 targets standing apart obviously
    I haven't quite made my mind up which you should priorize: GT/Barr or BA...
    how are you handling it currently?

  3. #3
    really haven't raided as it yet. I know SimC says SV is actually beating BM at the moment single target, i was gonna run SV this week to see if that was the case. Even if it matches BM SV is far easier to play, and an easier spec mean less potential for mistakes.

    I Run with LR simply because for me it seems to have very little difference damage wise over AMoC without the focus cost. FD sims AMoC as 200 DPS more then LR in my gear on a 7 minute fight.

    i also prefer barrage over GT but GT can do more damage. I plan on doing BA as soon as it drops simply because of the 4pc tier.

  4. #4
    If you use AMOC, it's important that you remember that the duration is LONG, and the cooldown is LONG, which means that as long as you get the max amount of AMOC's off that lasts full duration over a fight, it doesn't matter how long you wait with casting it.
    I usually prefer:
    Dire Beast>Glaive toss->Explo Shot>Black Arrow>Serpent sting>Rapid fire and cobra shot, hitting Explo shot as it becomes aviable, and building 60 focus for AMOC. Then I readiness, Explo shot>Glaive Toss, and fall back into the normal Surv Rhytm.

    Glaive toss first as it hits multiple times instantly, setting off more chances at trinket procs for the remainder of my burst.
    Explo shot second to get it on CD ASAP for more explo shot.
    Black Arrow for faster chance at LnL.
    Serpent sting last, because the damage it does over the first 3 seconds would equal to one tick, and I don't feel an average of 30-35K damage makes up for the benefit of delaying any of the other stuff.
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2012-12-08 at 11:09 PM.

  5. #5
    I usually pop crows, serpent sting, es, then use fervor. Use black arrow, spam arcane until es cd up.

    Might not be the best way to play, but I love fervor with crows. I see why most top hunters use it.

  6. #6
    SV is not better then BM single target.
    Femaledwarf shows me a 99875.15 dps as SV (with DB and aMoC) and a 103750.76 dps as BM.
    Simcraft shows about the same -> http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html
    Last edited by Rusk; 2012-12-09 at 12:23 AM.

  7. #7
    Explosive shot before serpent sting imo.


    I believe they removed the extra damage on ss afflicted targets so you'd be better served getting your ES on CD. Also ES before black arrow obviously to avoid a lnl proc off the first tick which would mean only getting 3 es not 4.

    What draco said is pretty much what I'd do.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    SV is not better then BM single target.
    Femaledwarf shows me a 99875.15 dps as SV (with DB and aMoC) and a 103750.76 dps as BM.
    Simcraft shows about the same -> http://simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html
    That is done with BiS heroic gear. There's only a handful of people who play that way so using those sims isn't exactly accurate for everyone.

  9. #9
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    I use: RF+ES - BA - CoS - Stampede - AMoC - SrS - GT - ES (x3 if LnL procced), Readiness, ES, into normal rotation.

    If I use DB, I'd use it before the readiness right after the 2nd ES. Since the SrS buff I've been pondering moving SrS up, but I kind of need the two GCDs of non-focus costing abilities to get that AMoC off where I do.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Koochulu View Post
    That is done with BiS heroic gear. There's only a handful of people who play that way so using those sims isn't exactly accurate for everyone.
    It doesn't change the fact that BM is better.

  11. #11
    currently hitting

    precast cobra - black arrow - explosive - dire beast - glaive throw - serpent sting - rapid fire - stampede - cobra - cobra - amoc - explosive - RESET

    Of course reacting to early L&L procs

  12. #12
    There is no science for my opener and it's prob not the best dpswise, just how I adapted to opening after these months.
    I use TotH - AMoC - GT.

    (mark - prepot - MD - jadajada)
    1) ES
    2) BA
    3) GT
    4a) If TotH procced: MS
    4b) If TotH didn't proc but +3targets: MS
    4c) If Toth didn't proc and -3targets: SrS
    5) RF
    6) Stampede
    7a) If ES procced allready: ES, ES, ES, CS, CS, AMoC (might need an extra CS in there)
    8b) If ES didn't proc: CS, CS, ES, CS, AMoC
    9) Now you do normal priority untill ES + GT CD have aligned which doesn't take very long
    10) When ES + GT align you use: GT, ES, Read, ES, GT (if target was very far away put an AS or CS before 2nd GT. this also aligns with BA almost dropping off so you can keep it up instead of losing it 3sec)
    11a) If multi target: get focus up quickly while keeping BA, ES and GT off cooldown and use AMoC on 2nd target (use 2nd RF if needed)
    11b) If single target: do normal rotation but try to keep your focus very close to capped when AMoC is nearing to fall off and use 2nd AMoC when it's off your target

    I prefer using AMoC at the end of all the other shots since there is less chance to miss an extra AMoC at the end of the fight than it is for other shots. And even if those +-5sec earlier AMoC mean you can use it an extra time at the end, it won't make up in those 5sec used and chance is small you have 60focus for grabs at the end when KS is also in rotation.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by StijnDP View Post
    4a) If TotH procced: MS
    why? SS is only 15 focus now, isn't it better than MS even with ToTH proc?

  14. #14
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    SrS = 15 focus for ISS damage + normal SrS
    MS under ToTH = 20 focus for ISS damage + normal SrS + MS damage. Well worth the 5 extra focus, but yes, it is closer than it was.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    SrS = 15 focus for ISS damage + normal SrS
    MS under ToTH = 20 focus for ISS damage + normal SrS + MS damage. Well worth the 5 extra focus, but yes, it is closer than it was.
    and MS uses a charge of ToTH, you cant just ignore that (when using SS you have a free arcane more!)
    Not even when SS was 25 focus was it worth applying it with MS, now its even worse. Dont do it unless you have multiple trgets

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    and MS uses a charge of ToTH, you cant just ignore that (when using SS you have a free arcane more!)
    Not even when SS was 25 focus was it worth applying it with MS, now its even worse. Dont do it unless you have multiple trgets
    Not that it matters NOW, but it was deffo worth applying it with MS pre-patch, when it was 20 focus vs 25. The extra arcane shot doesn't matter alot in that regard, like, at all (not to mention MS can proc more TOTH).

  17. #17
    im wondering isnt barrage better than glave toss if u have epic weapon (ex bow from normal 10)?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by yakuz View Post
    im wondering isnt barrage better than glave toss if u have epic weapon (ex bow from normal 10)?
    barrage can do more damage then GT, it also hits 16 times vs 2 so it has a MUCH greater chance of procing trinkets, however you cannot just shoot it wildly as it can hit unintended targets and it takes slightly more time then 2 GCDs.

    honestly its a preference thing in the long haul you really don't lost anything with barrage over GT, however while barrage hits 16 times its highly unlikely that all 16 will crit where as if even 1 of the glaives hit it increases the GTs damage by 50%.
    Last edited by Nemesis003; 2012-12-10 at 01:07 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    It doesn't change the fact that BM is better.
    Still its in BiS gear and it is a sim. not many ppl perform the same way a sim calculates if any. I for sure know i do better as SV then BM bcs i dont like the BM specc. Been raiding 10 man with a another hunter playing BM and i am on top off him on every fight. Might be him playing badly but its from real raiding not sims...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Not that it matters NOW, but it was deffo worth applying it with MS pre-patch, when it was 20 focus vs 25. The extra arcane shot doesn't matter alot in that regard, like, at all (not to mention MS can proc more TOTH).
    now you're kidding me. saving 5 focus and doing a multishot on one target (which does a fraction of the damage of an arcane) is important, but losing a whole free arcane shot (ie 20 focus) doesn't matter?
    and the serpent sting you cast also has the chance to reprocc ToTH just as the 20focus mutli has. (talking of reproccing, in the case it reproccs when you still have stacks, then you didn't lose anything. then it was worth it. but you can't just assume you will procc toth again straight away)
    but as you said, it doesn't matter now. wasn't worth it before, so even less worth it now :-D

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