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  1. #1
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    What talent changes do we need?

    Blizzard says that they are going to make some talent changes in 5.2, what talent changes do you think we need? Here are my thoughts.

    I think wild charge is good and needs no changes and I can maybe see a nerf to displacer beast(45 sec cooldown?) but I feel something need to be added to feline swiftness. A 10% speed boost is not that much fun, I would like 10% speed boost in addition to maybe all stampeding roar to remove all snare/movement effects on everyone that is effects.

    For the second tier I see renewal and nature's swiftness as fairly even but cerarion ward could need some buffing.

    I think the third tier is difficult, I don't think typhoon is op but many people are using it over the other two. With mass entanglement I can see changing the cd to 1 minute and maybe changing it's spread ability to 6. With Faerie Swarm, I would like to see maybe something like disable for monks, If you use swarm on the target he will be slowed for 50% but if you use it when it is already on it it would put entangling roots on the victim(though this could be op, I am just thinking of some ideas).

    In tier 4, I would like to see a big buff to Force of Nature and maybe smallish buff to Soul Forest. I think Incarnation is good where it stands, and maybe too good.

    In tier 5, I think most of them are somewhat even. I would like to get the clunkyness out of Ursol's Vortex though.

    For the 6th tier I feel they are pretty even> I would maybe like to see some buffs to Dream of Cenarius, possibly give moonfire and rejuvenation a 25% chance to give the buff, also I would like to give guardian a buff to use this spell because it give them no reason to pick it up.

    On a whole I guess I would like the removal of Faerie Swarm and Ursol's Vortex moved to it's place. Then we could have a new talent in tier 5, possibly a disarm or silence. Though something else that could be cool would be cool would be a cooldown increaser, it could last on the target for 7 seconds and if the target uses one of their abilties it would give it a 5 second cd(and add to existing cooldowns?), though it would be hard to balance and its uses for pve would be limited.

    Here is the popularity of the talents/builds http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?c=11&w=&a=23
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  2. #2
    T1 is fine for Guardians. It'd be nice if DB wasn't complete shit, but 2/3 isn't bad.

    T2 is fine. Again Cenarion Ward is shit, but 2/3 ain't bad.

    T3 needs help. ME and FS are both pretty useless thus far, especially with IW being baseline. Typhoon isn't useful on every fight, but it's amazing for those it is good on.

    T4 also needs help. SoTF and FoN are terribad. I've seen a suggestion before to have the trees grant you Rage when they hit something, and I think that'd be really cool. SotF just needs a straight up buff to remotely compete with Incarnation.

    T5 is actually pretty good. UV and MB have their uses. DR is pretty terrible, but 2/3 is ok.

    T6 is mostly fine. Unfortunately there aren't enough situations where HotW is beneficial to use - Tsulong being the only normal mode this entire tier.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    T6 is mostly fine. Unfortunately there aren't enough situations where HotW is beneficial to use - Tsulong being the only normal mode this entire tier.
    As a tank I've been using HotW on Gara'jal, Elegon and Ta'yak...especially Ta'yak. Only fight I get to pop it twice. Let's just say our healers are pretty bad at tornado dodging. We're still working on Garalon, so I couldn't say anything concrete past that, though I did twig on how awesome it is on LFR Tsulong.

  4. #4
    As a tank I've been using HotW on Gara'jal, Elegon and Ta'yak...especially Ta'yak. Only fight I get to pop it twice. Let's just say our healers are pretty bad at tornado dodging. We're still working on Garalon, so I couldn't say anything concrete past that, though I did twig on how awesome it is on LFR Tsulong.
    I start tanking Gara, so can't use HotW. Only good on Elegon if you don't tank in P3 (which I do). Blade Lord...ehhhh.

    You can't use it on Garalon. Don't even bother trying.

  5. #5
    I can imagine a use for the on-use of HoTW for every single T14 encounter that positively affects the raid as a tank. If nothing else, blanket hotw-rejuv is really strong.

  6. #6
    I still can't forgive blizzard for removing either 15% speed or feral charge from us.
    Just make feral charge a base spec ability for bears and cats, and talent tree will be fine.

  7. #7
    Well, they did make 15% movespeed stack with just about anything as a result. Besides, cat only lost 5%. The real problem this tier is Displacer Beast which is just plain useless.

    Cenarion Ward might be a little on the weak side, not sure. 3 and 5 are fine, i think

    4 SotF needs some work done, also, i think Incarnation and NV need their cooldowns decoupled from a design PoV, so they don't synergise to well and eclipse the other options.

    Still not convinced by the odd workings of DoC, HotW is fine, i think.

  8. #8
    i think if they made Cenarion Ward to absorb instead of healing and buff it abit it would be kinda cool for some fight where you know when the burst is comming.
    edit: you also have to remember that some talant is awsome in pvp and worthless in pve etc, so you kinda have to make the spells so it work for both
    Last edited by baver; 2012-12-08 at 04:17 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    I can imagine a use for the on-use of HoTW for every single T14 encounter that positively affects the raid as a tank. If nothing else, blanket hotw-rejuv is really strong.
    For 11/16 normal mode encounters you are never in a situation where shifting out of Bear Form is beneficial - or possible. And for those, NV will give you much better HPS - not to mention a DPS cooldown.

    The other 5 (Gara'jal, Blade Lord, Ambershaper, Empress, Tsulong) range from limited (cannot benefit from the entire duration) to having a full window. And your strat can further restrict this.

    I'm obviously not saying that HoTW is bad or anything. With only 2 viable T6 talents (DoC is complete shit), it's a shame we don't get to use one of the more often than we do.

  10. #10
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108288
    "Guardian Druids may also cast Rejuvenation while shapeshifted."
    Last edited by ichime; 2012-12-08 at 10:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...

    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"

  11. #11
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Personally I think DoC is super clumsy. DPS shouldn't have to heal to min/max their dps.

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  12. #12
    Agree totally with the above.

  13. #13
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    Personally I think DoC is super clumsy. DPS shouldn't have to heal to min/max their dps.
    I personally don't like how the last tier increases dps for dps. I would rather it just increase the druids hybridablity.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  14. #14
    It did that in the beta. It worked out even worse.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ichime View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108288
    "Guardian Druids may also cast Rejuvenation while shapeshifted."
    You're not going to sacrifice GCDs while tanking to cast Rejuv on anyone else but yourself.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Replacing Vortex to T2 and removing the swarm slow? Hells no. Do that and you'll cripple moonkins even more in PvP. Keep the tiers as they are but apply your changes and replace swarm slow with anything else.

    I think the multi-root should be on a 45 sec CD instead of 1 or 2 min. As for vortex, it's not really clunky anymore. I think they hotfixed it to be more responsive. Overall I'm pretty happy with the tier choices. Besides feline swiftness.. which is easily the weakest choice out of T1 for PvP

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Force of Nature is my bet one of the most unused talent by us. I mean basically to fix them just make the copycat what the druid dose but not as strong.
    Also i do think HotW would've been our 87 ability and we should get a new more interesting 90 talent. Overall i do think they are doing a good job making talents with an option of 3 per tier there most of the are viable for 4 specs.
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  18. #18
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    Force of Nature is my bet one of the most unused talent by us. I mean basically to fix them just make the copycat what the druid dose but not as strong.
    Also i do think HotW would've been our 87 ability and we should get a new more interesting 90 talent. Overall i do think they are doing a good job making talents with an option of 3 per tier there most of the are viable for 4 specs.
    That and cerarion ward. Blood Dks did have something like that but blizzard nerfed it, so if they did this they would have to ay real close attention to it. And if you use cc it would kill your dr.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    You're not going to sacrifice GCDs while tanking to cast Rejuv on anyone else but yourself.
    Maybe not when you're being melee'd by the boss, but there are quite a few places where this could come in handy. Off the top of my head:

    - You can help out with the healing in the last phase of Tayak, especially if your raid lacks mobile healers.
    - Lei-shi's Get Away is quite intense on heroic so you can assist the healing again.
    - It looks like Zor'lok stops attacking the tanks during Force and Verve so you can blanket RJ twice in the fight.
    - Depending on your tactic and if you're not tanking Amber Shaper in the final phase, you could probably be very effective, especially if a healer get reshaped. Tanks are last priority.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-09 at 01:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    Force of Nature is my bet one of the most unused talent by us. I mean basically to fix them just make the copycat what the druid dose but not as strong.
    Also i do think HotW would've been our 87 ability and we should get a new more interesting 90 talent. Overall i do think they are doing a good job making talents with an option of 3 per tier there most of the are viable for 4 specs.
    Or at least make them cast Regrowth to help slightly with burst healing.
    Ashr

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Besides feline swiftness.. which is easily the weakest choice out of T1 for PvP
    How is it any weaker than DB, which is just a more limited Feral Charge?

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