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  1. #1

    2h Killing Machine procs?

    Hello, how do you guys manage your killing machine procs?
    For example lets say you get a killing machine proc and you got 40 RP and can use a frost strike but you got a 4 second CD on Obliterate, do you wait for it
    or use Frost Strike?
    How long should / shouldnt i wait for killing machine?

  2. #2
    I use up my KM on FS if it's something ridiculous like 4 seconds cd on OB with no BT stacks if you talented those.

    I give OB 3 seconds till I hit FS, but I want to see better skilled/raiding players post their priorities too.

  3. #3
    Don't wait at all. Just ignore killing machine entirely. In fact, you should turn off the blizzard spell alert.

    This seems counterintuitive, but sims have shown effectively no difference between spending KM "properly" and just ignoring it.

  4. #4
    waiting for obliterate = wasting time/rune/RE chances

    For this reason I will play DW frost. Its way more easier to get the maximum from the spec with DW

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by wooootles View Post
    I use up my KM on FS if it's something ridiculous like 4 seconds cd on OB with no BT stacks if you talented those.

    I give OB 3 seconds till I hit FS, but I want to see better skilled/raiding players post their priorities too.
    Been doing this. So far no DPS has came close to beating my dps in dungeons at 90. I'm doing 50k-70k consistent sustained on most bosses, and up to an 80k opener with army.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Don't wait at all. Just ignore killing machine entirely. In fact, you should turn off the blizzard spell alert.

    This seems counterintuitive, but sims have shown effectively no difference between spending KM "properly" and just ignoring it.
    Would like to know if more people do this and if its viable

  7. #7
    Legendary! Evil Inside's Avatar
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    If its a big wait like 3-4 seconds just use it on FS, otherwise wait for OB, thats what I do anyway and it works pretty well.
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  8. #8
    Schizoide is right, you should never hold a KM strike. Use them immediately. Assuming you aren't sitting on capped runes or runic power, you are still loosing resources by waiting because you push back the runic power you get from the obliterate or the potential rune from frost strike. At the end of the fight, if you spent a total of 30 seconds waiting around, that's 30 seconds of active resource generation you have lost. The Sims bear this out consistently.

    In that same vein, you should always use your ghoul on CD, no waiting around for procs or CDs to line up. The guardians update stats dynamically and blood and frost ghouls have 50% uptime anyway.

  9. #9
    Keyboard Turner
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    As a 2H i usually wait up to 4 seconds to use obliterate, but when im DW ill use it on FS.
    Last edited by Monnik; 2012-09-29 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by zorben View Post
    Use them immediately. Assuming you aren't sitting on capped runes or runic power, you are still loosing resources by waiting because you push back the runic power you get from the obliterate or the potential rune from frost strike. At the end of the fight, if you spent a total of 30 seconds waiting around, that's 30 seconds of active resource generation you have lost. The Sims bear this out consistently.
    no... just, no

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by billtimbob View Post
    no... just, no
    Yes just yes
    ENGLISH ISNT MY MAIN SPEC
    YOU NOW BREATH CONSCIOUSLY

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Playintrafic's Avatar
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    When I do dps, I use it on FS if its more than a 1s wait on Oblit. And vice versa with DW. I use it on oblit with more than a 1s wait. If your wait, your waste a gcd. If its less than 2s I supose you could pop a CD, or hit horn for some rp.

  13. #13
    Yes, but that is wrong. Don't wait on KM, ever. Ignore it and press the buttons you would normally press.

  14. #14
    Okay, so this is what I am going to post:
    First off, Blood Tap isn't worth it, it's a DPS loss comparative to Runic Corruption
    Second, You don't delay it unless it'll be ~0.5 seconds (or less), otherwise it isn't worth it at all, and even then at 0.5~ seconds it depends on your RP situation. also, when you're below 35% HP those frost runes are better used as soul reaper so you don't really have the time to use all of your KMs on OB, and are more than likely better spent on frost strike.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-01 at 09:34 AM ----------

    Also, you are 100% Guranteed to be required as 2h frost unless you're in some casual guild pushing about 3,000~ region.
    Don't delay a GCD, ever.
    Don't cap on any resource, and win.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Frstypwn View Post
    Okay, so this is what I am going to post:
    First off, Blood Tap isn't worth it, it's a DPS loss comparative to Runic Corruption
    Second, You don't delay it unless it'll be ~0.5 seconds (or less), otherwise it isn't worth it at all, and even then at 0.5~ seconds it depends on your RP situation. also, when you're below 35% HP those frost runes are better used as soul reaper so you don't really have the time to use all of your KMs on OB, and are more than likely better spent on frost strike.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-01 at 09:34 AM ----------

    Also, you are 100% Guranteed to be required as 2h frost unless you're in some casual guild pushing about 3,000~ region.
    Don't delay a GCD, ever.
    Don't cap on any resource, and win.
    Runic Empowerment > Corruption for frost.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Frstypwn
    Okay, so this is what I am going to post:
    First off, Blood Tap isn't worth it, it's a DPS loss comparative to Runic Corruption
    Second, You don't delay it unless it'll be ~0.5 seconds (or less), otherwise it isn't worth it at all, and even then at 0.5~ seconds it depends on your RP situation. also, when you're below 35% HP those frost runes are better used as soul reaper so you don't really have the time to use all of your KMs on OB, and are more than likely better spent on frost strike.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-01 at 09:34 AM ----------

    Also, you are 100% Guranteed to be required as 2h frost unless you're in some casual guild pushing about 3,000~ region.
    Don't delay a GCD, ever.
    Don't cap on any resource, and win.
    Runic Empowerment > Corruption for frost.
    Oh, you say RE > RC for Frost?
    Well, just some evidence to contradict that statement: Runic Corruption affects 6 runes, not 1, and for Frost 2h (DW isn't viable unless you don't have a same gear level 2h) cannot game runes, and therefore doesn't get a similar benefit from RE.
    RE procs the same amount, gets you one rune which it costs two for OB, while RC brings my rune timers down to 3~ seconds.
    That being said, RE isn't a strong choice in comparison.

  17. #17
    Now i'm confused - what is better? RE / RC? People say different things.

    both have 45% procchance.

    RE: Regenerates one empty rune completely (100%)
    Rc: Regenerates 3 Runes 100% faster for 30% of their TOTAL recharge duration (The Effect duration goes down with increasing haste levels - at least this was the case last week i checked)

    so i'm quite confused - technically, RE looks better. Can anyone help? ty

  18. #18
    RE is the best choice for frost. It is absolutely required for DW masterfrost, because gaming against unholy runes is integral to the priority.

    RE is the most efficient of all the L75 choices, offering a 45% chance for a rune, versus 40% for BT and 40.5% for RC. Unlike the other specs, 2H frost has no need to game RE, since every rune can be used to obliterate. That base 5% efficiency makes it the best choice for 2H frost.

    Unholy and Blood should both use Blood Tap. PvE Unholy macros it into Death Coil, PvP unholy and blood can either macro or manually manage it if the player wants more control.

    RC is the worst choice for every spec.

    For every spec except DW masterfrost, if you really hate RE you can use BT or RC and do OK. It's not optimal, but it is a very small difference.

  19. #19
    Number of rune affected, in and of itself, does not directly affect how good or bad RC is. If RC only give you 0.05 seconds on each 6 runes, one of the other two would obviously be the better choice.
    Even then, RC only affects 3 runes, only one of each of your runes can be regenerating at a time.

    You need to look at how many are regenerating, how much they are regenerating, and what the potential wastage is. Just stating it affects more runes (especially if you get the number wrong) doesn't give enough information to make you right.

  20. #20
    How does arguing about RE or RC have anything to do with Killing Machine Procs?

    OT: I don't wait for any amount of time for Obliterate to come off cooldown. It's been simmed out that you should just ignore KM procs because you as a human can't manage them better than a priority list in a sim, and even the sim played perfectly gained no benefit from trying to only use KM procs on Obliterate (or Frost Strike for DW).

    Yes it sucks to watch Frost Strike light up just as I'm hitting it, and watch that KM proc go to a 40k crit instead of 100k+ on Obliterate, but oh well. I'm going with the math.

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