Are Windwalkers worth bringing to a raid?

[Just Do It]

I'm wondering this because I have mained every single healing class and I want to focus my monk on DPS without getting forced into tanking/healing. Is it worth it for any raid to bring a WW? I know player skill > class selection but in general would it be worth it to have a WW over another melee?

[TwentyTwelve]

Honestly, monks are quite low on the dps `charts/sims` atleast they were when i saw one, however a monk can easily pull 70k, a monk i'm with pulls 100k quite a lot. Compared to other classes they don't actually bring that much to a raid, e.g. Devotion (pally), banners / Rallying (warriors)... It depends how hardcore of a raid team you're looking to get in.

[TheWindWalker]

I'm wondering this because I have mained every single healing class and I want to focus my monk on DPS without getting forced into tanking/healing. Is it worth it for any raid to bring a WW? I know player skill > class selection but in general would it be worth it to have a WW over another melee?

The best thing they have going for them is that they're from a tanking class. Lots of defensive cooldowns, the ability to kite and even momentarily tank adds, extreme mobility and extensive CC. Otherwise, no, nothing compared to dropping Skull Banner or an Ele/Enh dropping burst raid heals. They do bring very stable DPS with a few nice gimmicks. (Touch of Death on Gara'jal's adds/Elegon's Orbs)

If your raid just wants a steady DPS they can get easily calculable results from, Windwalker is that. Not much more.

[Santti]

I'd suggest not focusing on the numbers what class/spec X can pull now, but instead what you find fun to play. MoP is still very young, we haven't had monks for long. I'm sure each and every class/spec will have their numbers tuned numerous times in the coming months.

[hehegurl]

I'm wondering this because I have mained every single healing class and I want to focus my monk on DPS without getting forced into tanking/healing. Is it worth it for any raid to bring a WW? I know player skill > class selection but in general would it be worth it to have a WW over another melee?

I play a WW in raids, I found it very hard to get into half decent guild (heroic progression). We really don't bring a lot to a raid besides consistent DPS and if I was a raid leader I would probably not bring a monk over another class (especially to a 10 man).

[Tehterokkar]

My raid team(25m) runs with 2 WW monks(Also we have 2 Monk healers) and 2 rogues usually, both which are considered to be low DPS. It doesn't matter what your DPS is unless you are going for World Firsts.

And imo, WW Monks have great AoE.

[Dracodraco]

WW monks have nothing going for them that any other melee can't do better.
Defensive personals? Rogue's got feint, cloak, etc and can blade flurry for cleave.
Raid cooldowns? They bring nothing, while a kitty brings tranq (which heals for millions with HOTW, we made good use of that during progress).
Mobility? Completly unnessecary, but ranged brings it anyway.

[TheWindWalker]

And imo, WW Monks have great AoE.

Unfortunately they buffed Hunter's Serpent Sting to a point where we can't reach. We're talking over 300k DPS on large packs. (Which is kind of beautiful in a bad sort of way)

[Totaltotemic]

WW monks have nothing going for them that any other melee can't do better.
Defensive personals? Rogue's got feint, cloak, etc and can blade flurry for cleave.
Raid cooldowns? They bring nothing, while a kitty brings tranq (which heals for millions with HOTW, we made good use of that during progress).
Mobility? Completly unnessecary, but ranged brings it anyway.

What? Touch of Karma is OP as hell in terms of defensive cooldowns, Diffuse Magic is just as good as CloS is. Fortifying Brew is about as good as you get in terms of long-duration damage reduction.

I don't see how "ranged" "brings" mobility, but Windwalkers are by far the most mobile melee class except in PvP where roots are prevalent. That's very good for target swapping and high movement fights.

DPS is absolutely fine now since 5.1 fixed a number of issues, with the only problem being a lack of 2-3 target cleave. In terms of single target, WW is the same if not more than most melee DPS now since 5.1 buffs.

Overt utility is a problem, but Rogues and Hunters don't really have any either, so if you're going to rule out Monks rule them out too.

You're sadly misinformed.

[shadowboxer123]

I'm sure each and every class

Each and every class what? What do you mean? Clarify.

[Babytaco]

There's a Windwalker in my 10m group and my answer is no. The spec is pretty useless and their utility sucks. I'll take an Enhance Shaman, Rogue, or Warrior over a Windwalker any day.

[Buxton McGraff]

I've yet to be beat by anybody in my raids in terms of DPS. My gear is alright, by no means as good as my guild mates, and I'm ranking on a lot of fights on World of Logs. Windwalkers have amazing survivability with Touch of Karma, Diffuse Magic, Dampen Harm, and Zen Meditation. My healers are usually shocked when huge aoe goes out, and I'm still at full HP having taking little to no damage. Not only that, but we have the best mobility of any class and are able to dance on Will of the Emperor with extreme ease.

[announced]

the last ww monk i saw barely did 70k dps.. perhaps 100k is possible but.... ive never seen one doing high dps vs a warrior frost dk or even one of those ever so rare rogues.

monks tend to be good tanks and great healers.. but not much else.

[whatthefudge]

Are you in a top 50 raiding guild? No? Then it doesn't matter. Bring the best players regardless of their class. If your best 10 players are monks, bring 10 monks. All classes are balanced close enough together that you bring the best players and don't worry about classes.

---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 08:12 AM ----------

the last ww monk i saw barely did 70k dps.. perhaps 100k is possible but.... ive never seen one doing high dps vs a warrior frost dk or even one of those ever so rare rogues.

monks tend to be good tanks and great healers.. but not much else.

Yeah I mean, its not like someone's dps numbers are completely dependent on gear or anything.

[Daredalus]

http://www.simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

[Barky]

if you're in a total min/max guild bringing the 'top' dps'ers at the moment, then no.

If you're not, then yeah. Depending on how good they are mind. I'd take a good monk over a crap <insert class here> any day of the week.

[Araya]

I'm pulling about 100k right now in my raids depending on the fight. And from what I've found if its a single target fight we will crush most other DPS but once you start putting in adds we'll drop fast in the charts. Our defensive CD's are OP to the fact I've often died because I don't take constant enough damage with the rest of the raid. Windwalkers are definitely worth bringing to a raid but I wouldn't bring more than 1.

[Gondlem]

Windwalkers are quite good right now for sustained single target or AoE fights (ie not cleave or multiple split targets) where there is no particular burn phase where you need to stack CDs and where DPS is pretty sustained so you can use all your GCDs and not have to energy cap etc. They also have good defensive CDs and long range mobility if they are needed.

For example, they are good on Heroic Sha of Fear, Protectors (though FoF doesn't work on this boss), Lei Shi, Vizier, Feng and Gara'jal. They are also good on Elegon, because they have excellent burst with a full chi and energy bar for killing the p2 adds, and the final burn phase really isn't that important if you execute the rest of the fight well.

They are really bad at fights with burn phases due to a lack of on demand CDs, cleave fights due to no cleave whatsoever, fights with regular movement, and for any fight where DPS is regularly interrupted, at least compared to other classes that are more dependant on CDs or resources that run dry more frequently than WW energy. Blade Lord is a good example of this sort of fight. Probably more importantly, they have basically no raid utility so they're only worth bringing to raid when the fight suits their DPS strengths. They are good on the fights I listed above because they have very high potential DPS compared to other classes, especially when your raid isn't fully geared with everyone having 4 piece etc (since the WW 4p is awful), but on any fight that doesn't suit their DPS strengths, or if their DPS gets reduced at some point, they won't be worth slotting until they give the spec some kind of utility to bring it in line with other melee hybrids. Basically if you raid with a decently geared windwalker they should do well on quite a few fights in the present tier but on the fights where they do don't do well they should really be sat for someone who brings something to the raid other than damage.

[Snuzzfizzle]

I'm pulling about 100k right now in my raids depending on the fight. And from what I've found if its a single target fight we will crush most other DPS but once you start putting in adds we'll drop fast in the charts.

Your logs show something different.

[Tehterokkar]

What? Touch of Karma is OP as hell in terms of defensive cooldowns, Diffuse Magic is just as good as CloS is. Fortifying Brew is about as good as you get in terms of long-duration damage reduction.

I don't see how "ranged" "brings" mobility, but Windwalkers are by far the most mobile melee class except in PvP where roots are prevalent. That's very good for target swapping and high movement fights.

DPS is absolutely fine now since 5.1 fixed a number of issues, with the only problem being a lack of 2-3 target cleave. In terms of single target, WW is the same if not more than most melee DPS now since 5.1 buffs.

Overt utility is a problem, but Rogues and Hunters don't really have any either, so if you're going to rule out Monks rule them out too.

You're sadly misinformed.

Excuse me... Hunters can bring every buff there is, along with Brez. Also they have AoE Slow,Single target slow, AoE Root, Single target root, AoE Stun, Single target stun, Silence, Interrupt, able to do 100% DPS on the move and since last hotfixes, Multi-dot capabilities(Survival).

Afaik, Hunters bring the most utility to the raid currently, only problem is that their overall DPS is not quite up-to-par with other classes.(Speaking strictly 25man)