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  1. #1

    How to make people learn?

    I find it annoying to cap valor in 5 mans every week, reason for that is morons who let me do their job for them.

    People who die on Arlan the Blademaster in SM or whatever his name is, people who die on the kung fu panda in the dojo in shado pan fists of fury, people who drool in the water on the 1st boss in jade temple. List goes on and on.

    I also do 50% of the groups damage and they won't reply to me when I ask what they are doing. They won't take advice when I tell them what they do wrong, I try to help them know how to gem gear/reforge or even play their rotation. I play a warlock and I got a fair idea about other classes dps rotation but most people in pugs barely know their own class.

    This is painful to endure every week and it makes me not want to cap my valor. I get time to cap before raids, which is 2-3 hours after I get home from work.

    As most guildies come on 5-10 min before raid or some don't wanna do heroics they aren't an option to force to come with me as they don't want to deal with the mouthbreathers I gotta deal with in every 5 man.

    Is it THAT HARD? To read up on your class, you see a boss come towards you with bladestorm whatever or something thats lethal, would you stand in it IRL? NO, so move out and do proper dps. My rogue alt is new dinged and I can do 40k dps with shit gear, I see people with the same gear around 15k-20k.

    So its really true 80% of the population have the awareness of a rock and the attentionspan of a 12 year old with ADD.
    Main: Warlock Hero of the Alliance
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  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Grym's Avatar
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    you dont need dungeon to cap valor now, clear raid plus LFR (not even need all of them) will cap it for you

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    you dont need dungeon to cap valor now, clear raid plus LFR (not even need all of them) will cap it for you
    LFR has the same, really. I don't wanna wipe on dumbed down encounters because the players are dumber than the level of the dumbing down of the raid itself. Stone guard LFR, tanks are having a retard outbreak and makes the raid freeze. Feng the accursed, dumbshits with arcane resonance drooled so much on their keyboard they cant move away from raid, if they don't fail the people who get the fire will drop it on the melee who obviously dont notice and die.

    Garajahl, never wiped here.

    Elegon: 18 people are skydivers.

    Will of the emperor: hurr durr melee "dancing"

    Didn't do HoF LFR/ terrace LFR yet because its prolly the same dumb people there.

    Why would I waste my time playing like Im supposed to while 18++ people can't do the same? I rather keep my sanity.
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  4. #4
    Over 9000! Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    you dont need dungeon to cap valor now, clear raid plus LFR (not even need all of them) will cap it for you
    It got even easier to do that after they upped the VP reward for killing raid bosses the other week.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    I find it annoying to cap valor in 5 mans every week, reason for that is morons who let me do their job for them.
    That's as if the guys dragging stones at 45 degrees through the Egyptian Desert 2500 years ago said "those Pharaos are morons who let me do their job for them." I guess there are at least two perspectives who's the moron here...

  6. #6
    Point is, if I don't wanna pug to cap my valor. Should not the normal/heroic raids give us 300 valor points? That would be sweet.
    Main: Warlock Hero of the Alliance
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    I also do 50% of the groups damage and they won't reply to me when I ask what they are doing. They won't take advice when I tell them what they do wrong, I try to help them know how to gem gear/reforge or even play their rotation. I play a warlock and I got a fair idea about other classes dps rotation but most people in pugs barely know their own class.
    Judging by this post and your many prior posts, I'm almost 100% certain that you'll come across as an elitist jackass when you try to tell them how to play.

    You will not, ever, change other people, especially not ones who you meet in random 5 man dungeons and never see again. They have no reason or desire to listen to some random guy who is probably throwing thinly veiled insults at them in the guise of 'advice'. So there's only one viable option: if you can't change them, change yourself.

    Stop giving a fuck about how much DPS is being done. MoP heroics are ridiculously easy, especially now that people are getting raid geared. Who cares if someone is doing low DPS? Are you still clearing the place? Probably, so just deal with it and move on.

    Getting angry/upset over this will solve absolutely nothing, and if you are doing what I said above (acting like an elitist jerk when 'giving advice'), then all you're doing is ruining the moods of the people in the group with you as well as your own. That sounds like a net loss to me.

    You can't change other people. Change yourself: stop getting upset over the low performance of the other people in the group. So long as the place is still getting cleared, then there's no issues whatsoever.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Judging by this post and your many prior posts, I'm almost 100% certain that you'll come across as an elitist jackass when you try to tell them how to play.

    You will not, ever, change other people, especially not ones who you meet in random 5 man dungeons and never see again. They have no reason or desire to listen to some random guy who is probably throwing thinly veiled insults at them in the guise of 'advice'. So there's only one viable option: if you can't change them, change yourself.

    Stop giving a fuck about how much DPS is being done. MoP heroics are ridiculously easy, especially now that people are getting raid geared. Who cares if someone is doing low DPS? Are you still clearing the place? Probably, so just deal with it and move on.

    Getting angry/upset over this will solve absolutely nothing, and if you are doing what I said above (acting like an elitist jerk when 'giving advice'), then all you're doing is ruining the moods of the people in the group with you as well as your own. That sounds like a net loss to me.

    You can't change other people. Change yourself: stop getting upset over the low performance of the other people in the group. So long as the place is still getting cleared, then there's no issues whatsoever.

    So what if its easy? I know its easy. However its slow. It could be faster if everyone played proper. Imagine you work at a company in a group project. A group of five where only 3 of the group members do their work while two just sits on ass. Should the two get the same pay/reward? NO.
    Main: Warlock Hero of the Alliance
    Rogue Gladiator alt
    twitch.tv/dreoras <-- My stream, visit for Challenge mode boosts
    youtube.com/mycelar <--- My boost teams youtube, visit to see us in action 3 manning CM golds.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    LFR has the same, really. I don't wanna wipe on dumbed down encounters because the players are dumber than the level of the dumbing down of the raid itself. Stone guard LFR, tanks are having a retard outbreak and makes the raid freeze. Feng the accursed, dumbshits with arcane resonance drooled so much on their keyboard they cant move away from raid, if they don't fail the people who get the fire will drop it on the melee who obviously dont notice and die.

    Garajahl, never wiped here.

    Elegon: 18 people are skydivers.

    Will of the emperor: hurr durr melee "dancing"

    Didn't do HoF LFR/ terrace LFR yet because its prolly the same dumb people there.

    Why would I waste my time playing like Im supposed to while 18++ people can't do the same? I rather keep my sanity.
    I've literally wiped 3 times in MoP LFR. 1: Garalon pre-nerf 2: Ta'yak healer fail during tornados 3: Empress, adds weren't picked up properly, not blaming tank, was probably overzealous dps but it's LFR so it's not like anyone was logging it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  10. #10
    Legendary! Arbs's Avatar
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    All I have to say is to blame Blizzard for this, Honestly back in the day people wanted to learn & get better, now a days people gets affended when you wanna help them & call you elitest for just trying to be helpful. I only blame Blizzard & casuals (who refuse to learn) for this.

    Priestiality your not alone good sir, I have thought many times about quitting, but when I raid with my guild that all goes away & the reason why I refuse to do LFR in random groups unless I have a group of guildies with me so we can carry the group & I wont lose my sanity either.

  11. #11
    You could always run Scenarios like me. I find them to be a much more enjoyful experience. Especially in a guild group. Inbefore "scenarios gives less valor per run!" but you can also run through them a lot faster, plus the whole part of not having to deal with annoying randoms screwing up as much, as it's impossible to screw up a scenario.

  12. #12
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    So its really true 80% of the population have the awareness of a rock and the attentionspan of a 12 year old with ADD.
    Obviously it is like that for you, seeing the toons you display in your sig. I would have suggested to get your valors via scenarios and dailies, but I suppose both are also unbearable for you?

    Is running the 5 mans with guildies also out of the question, because you have a special timetable? Well..I guess so, because you would otherwise have tried all the afforementioned suggestions already.

    Leaves you with "Bear it and grin" and find comfort in the knowledge that you are just awesome at this game and 80% suck...
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  13. #13
    Simple answer. It's a game, the skill requirement for LFR/LFD is low, so why should they have to research something in depth to be able to have a quick go on a game they pay for?
    You and I may not like it (I for one research everything, and it makes my blood boil when peeps don't do so themselves), but they are under no obligation to do anything.

  14. #14
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    So what if its easy? I know its easy. However its slow. It could be faster if everyone played proper. Imagine you work at a company in a group project. A group of five where only 3 of the group members do their work while two just sits on ass. Should the two get the same pay/reward? NO.
    Imagine you live in a world where peple can tell a hobby from a job. Run the 5 mans with your guild, seriously. It is not the job of the rest of the world to be exactly where you are performance wise. I am sorry, but with an attitude like that, I will just eventually pop the question why your guild is world 549?

    By your logic you don't work as well as other guilds and progress would be faster if everyone played proper. Still you get the same rewards as Paragon and Method. By your logic you shouldn't.

    Get off your high horse.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  15. #15
    It's not a job take a chill pill.

    Also if you consider it some kind of race you must come last a lot.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Imagine you live in a world where peple can tell a hobby from a job. Run the 5 mans with your guild, seriously. It is not the job of the rest of the world to be exactly where you are performance wise. I am sorry, but with an attitude like that, I will just eventually pop the question why your guild is world 549?

    By your logic you don't work as well as other guilds and progress would be faster if everyone played proper. Still you get the same rewards as Paragon and Method. By your logic you shouldn't.

    Get off your high horse.
    my guild is actually top 133 ish world last time i checked. Where is your armory then?
    Main: Warlock Hero of the Alliance
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    So what if its easy? I know its easy. However its slow. It could be faster if everyone played proper. Imagine you work at a company in a group project. A group of five where only 3 of the group members do their work while two just sits on ass. Should the two get the same pay/reward? NO.
    As soon as you compare WoW to a job, then you lose the argument and all future arguments.

    This is a game. You play the game for the purposes of relaxing/having fun. If you're not having fun, then you need to make changes to ensure you are having fun. In your particular case, this means one of two things:

    1. Stop caring about the performance of other people in random 5 man dungeons, or

    2. Stop running randoms entirely.

    Your choice.

    As for why the WoW/job metaphor doesn't work: as said above, you play WoW to relax/have fun. You do not get a job for the same purpose. WoW and a job are engaged with for entirely different reasons, so cannot be compared.

    But hell, let's go with your comparison at any rate: If I was in that situation, with 2 people not pulling their weight, then I would still do my share of the work and possibly theirs as well. Then I'd be sure to mention it to our manager who can then discuss it with the slackers in private, as appropriate. I wouldn't be trying to give the slackers 'advice' or confronting them about their lack of engagement, because that isn't my place. That's between them and the manager.

    So to bring that back to WoW, the equivalent is doing exactly what I suggested: just get on with the dungeon run, do your part and make up for their slack. The part where the comparison falls apart (but hey, it's your comparison) is the 'telling the manager' part: I mean, you could go to their guild leader I guess, but honestly that'd just be silly.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    So what if its easy? I know its easy. However its slow. It could be faster if everyone played proper. Imagine you work at a company in a group project. A group of five where only 3 of the group members do their work while two just sits on ass. Should the two get the same pay/reward? NO.
    There is a difference between a job you get paid for and a game.
    Not every player is playing this game as if it was their job.... which is quite logical.

    You sound like a player who should not use lfd but run those instances in pre-made groups.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Agile Emily's Avatar
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    Personally, if you want to help people, attitude helps a LOT. People are more likely to learn from:

    "Remember not to stand in the fire =)"

    than from:

    "You fucking noob twats, stop dribbling on your keyboards and FUCKING MOVE!"

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudor View Post
    my guild is actually top 133 ish world last time i checked. Where is your armory then?
    and your just here to show your epeen? because last time i check YOU asked for advies not us.

    and yet you need to do hc for vp cap? just wait the few hours after the raids and i'm sure you will be vp capped after the raid.

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