1. #1

    Ideas for Raid Cooldowns

    It's been brought up quite often that as Monks we don't bring anything to a raid that compares to other specs. Windwalker especially brings nothing that can be considered a raid cooldown. (Zen Meditation seems not to work on pulling in Cowardice damage, anymore.) So I figured we could look at what the Monk themes are and drill out some appropriate cooldowns. Rather than have them be copies of other cooldowns, they should be somewhat unique or have a different gimmick so they can work with the already existing raid cooldowns to avoid being terribly overpowered.

    Charge of the Black Ox: Talent
    +10% Haste and +5% damage for 15 seconds. (5m exhaustion debuff as compared to the usual 10m, allowing shorter battles to have a "mini-bloodlust" at the start)

    Roar of the White Tiger: Talent
    +20% crit chance for 15 seconds. (10m "deafness" debuff. This would couple very well with Skull Banner)

    Song of the Red Crane: Talent
    +6000 mastery for 20 seconds. (5m "deafness" debuff that may or may not be the same as RotWT's. Most healers and tanks would love having +20% mastery for even that short a time. Might be too strong for Disc Priests.)

    Breathe of the Jade Serpent: Mistweaver Specification
    The next six mana tea stacks consumed will each return 2% mana to all raid members. (the duration would need to be long. One minute perhaps. Followed by a 5 minute cooldown)

    Also, we don't have a "bad talent tier" to replace, so having another choice like this could be a bit daunting unless all three "talents" were simply given to all three specs. Otherwise, just having one of those three would be a big improvement.
    Last edited by TheWindWalker; 2012-12-10 at 10:43 AM. Reason: clarifying
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  2. #2
    Pit Lord Drarion's Avatar
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    I think there was in beta an Invoke For Chi'ji that was kinda like a raid cooldown, 20-30% mastery for entire raid if im not misstaken. Dunno why it never followed trough.

    I agree we kinda need something to contribute with. Even Avert harm as Brm is kinda weak imo.

    Your "roar of the white tiger" spell seems like it could work, i know many 10mans lack warriors and therefore missout on the skullbanner.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Drarion View Post
    Your "roar of the white tiger" spell seems like it could work, i know many 10mans lack warriors and therefore missout on the skullbanner.
    Keep in mind, Skullbanner increases Critical damage by 20% not chance. Hence why they would be synergistic. Also, I didn't know about the invoke Chi-Ji bit but it fits right in with them adding mastery as a static raid buff.
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  4. #4
    We need a raid cooldown so bad that even with just one of them I would be satisfied for now...

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Jaja's Avatar
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    Make it so that Xuen when active provides the raid with a Buff, Roar of the White Tiger could work here. Or give Avert Harm to all specs and buff it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaja View Post
    Make it so that Xuen when active provides the raid with a Buff, Roar of the White Tiger could work here. Or give Avert Harm to all specs and buff it.
    Until his Planet needs him like currently on Garalon. And not everyone is taking Xuen.

  7. #7
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    I would be happy getting any raid cooldown. Mistweavers bring very little to the raid. Our healing range is very nice, and very useful but I hate that fact that I am unable to bring any form of utility to my team. Even if our current cooldown worked on more abilities, I would be happy! I hate channeling that crap, only to find it didn't do shit ...

  8. #8
    Pit Lord Drarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    Until his Planet needs him like currently on Garalon. And not everyone is taking Xuen.
    I think its fixed? he didnt leap yesterday for me. Or atleast stayed around long enough to make me think he didnt leap away.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Drarion View Post
    I think its fixed? he didnt leap yesterday for me. Or atleast stayed around long enough to make me think he didnt leap away.
    He leaped away yesterday in my raid...watched him often enough doing it EU realm here

  10. #10
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    The ideas are interesting. The only thing I'd worry about would be balancing them. They can't be so powerful that Monks would be one of those "required" classes to have in a raid group.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Charge of the Black Ox: Talent
    +10% Haste and +5% damage for 15 seconds. (5m exhaustion debuff as compared to the usual 10m, allowing shorter battles to have a "mini-bloodlust" at the start)
    Kind of interesting that you attribute a damage oriented raid CD to the "tank" Celestial. Would the exhaustion debuff from this affect the use of Heroism (and the other variants of it)? If this debuff does lock out the others, I don't see this being used. Why would you use a lesser Heroism that keeps you from using the original, better version? If it does not lock out the others, this would be a requirement for raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Roar of the White Tiger: Talent
    +20% crit chance for 15 seconds. (10m "deafness" debuff. This would couple very well with Skull Banner)

    Song of the Red Crane: Talent
    +6000 mastery for 20 seconds. (5m "deafness" debuff that may or may not be the same as RotWT's. Most healers and tanks would love having +20% mastery for even that short a time. Might be too strong for Disc Priests.)
    I like these. Both of them are usable by all raid roles (the crit isn't as useful to tanks, but they can still get use out of it).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Breathe of the Jade Serpent: Mistweaver Specification
    The next six mana tea stacks consumed will each return 2% mana to all raid members. (the duration would need to be long. One minute perhaps. Followed by a 5 minute cooldown)
    This one would be a little difficult to handle. I've never healed, so I'm not entirely sure how good that would be for the other healers of the raid.

    A good start, I think. A series of raid CDs would be a good idea for Monks as a whole. Call them something like the "Call of the Celestials" and have them share a 2-5 minute 'deafness' debuff to prevent chaining/stacking.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord
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    Many have said befor they should have each of the celestial oxen,tiger and serpent as each own specs CD or make use of the crane for a CD that would go cross the classes. Making a CD for each spec might be to diffucult and thye couldnt outshine the other one. Then ppl would stack 1 of every monk class to get 3 good CDs. Sure in a 25man there is room for that but in a 10man it would be bad.

  12. #12
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuin View Post
    Many have said befor they should have each of the celestial oxen,tiger and serpent as each own specs CD or make use of the crane for a CD that would go cross the classes. Making a CD for each spec might be to diffucult and thye couldnt outshine the other one. Then ppl would stack 1 of every monk class to get 3 good CDs. Sure in a 25man there is room for that but in a 10man it would be bad.
    Similar thing exists for shamans, all get stormlash and can spec healing tide only resto get mana tide and spirit link. Taking that blueprint I would have no issue with mistweavers getting the stronger raid CD and a dps CD with windwalker and brewmaster just getting the dps one.

    Brewmasters having Avert Harm buffed slightly, maybe by putting a damage reduction on the monk but putting an HP based mutliplier on the cap, something like aborbs 20% of all damage to people withing 15 yrds, damage absorbed by Avert Harm is reduced by 50% and can be staggered but will never exceed 4x the monks HP, or if that makes it too strong then you could tie the amount into AP so it become usable and stronger when you are actually tanking, and would prevent PvP balancing issues. Would be nice and leave the whole monk class in a decent state CD wise.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Kind of interesting that you attribute a damage oriented raid CD to the "tank" Celestial. Would the exhaustion debuff from this affect the use of Heroism (and the other variants of it)? If this debuff does lock out the others, I don't see this being used. Why would you use a lesser Heroism that keeps you from using the original, better version? If it does not lock out the others, this would be a requirement for raids.
    First, yes it's suppose to be the same "exhaustion" and for a good reason. I said "for shorter battles" because many battles have a berserk timer less than 10 minutes. This means you can only blow one Bloodlust/Heroism/Timewarp/Ancient Histeria on them. What I wanted was a very small one that wasn't even equal to half but had half the debuff. That way you can have two in a row.

    The reason I went with +5% damage is because some classes don't particularly care for haste so much that anything less than Bloodlust will matter to them. (Such as Windwalkers) For them, a tiny overall damage buff would be nice. Think of it as the "horns of the bull."


    I like these. Both of them are usable by all raid roles (the crit isn't as useful to tanks, but they can still get use out of it).
    Funny story. Monk tanks and Warriors tanks actually care about crit pretty seriously. For Brewmasters that's more elusive brew stacks more often and for Prot Warriors it's more rage.


    This one would be a little difficult to handle. I've never healed, so I'm not entirely sure how good that would be for the other healers of the raid.
    It's probably a bit too powerful as it stands but not by too much when compared to Hymn of Hope. (The raid cooldown that got priests brought in even during their pre-buff lax.)

    A good start, I think. A series of raid CDs would be a good idea for Monks as a whole. Call them something like the "Call of the Celestials" and have them share a 2-5 minute 'deafness' debuff to prevent chaining/stacking.
    Honestly, I think so too. I just don't know how much they'd be worked on back and forth before Blizzard would consider them "balanced."
    Last edited by TheWindWalker; 2012-12-10 at 08:13 PM. Reason: typos
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

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