1. #1
    High Overlord Liveet's Avatar
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    Arcane Fire or Frost, 10M

    Hey guys!

    After the fire nerf and all I´ve seen many threads about wich specc is the best. But I would be glad to know wich specc actually suits me the best.
    Here is my armory, eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/outland/Liveet/advanced

    I have seen that all of the 25M top mages are playing Arcane atm, wich is understandable due to low movement in the most of 25hc fights.
    But how is it when it comes to 10hc fights? Will Arcane stand as top even there, due to the fairly amount of higher movement, or will frost and fire actually overcome it?

    I would love to see some logs from hardcore raiding mages, wich actually performs at the top both as Frost and Arcane.

    So give me you opinion, but please have some facts that can prove it. Don´t just write: Arcane is better because I do better dmg. I would like some proof!

    P.S ( I have been raiding as fire this whole week, out damaging my raid at almost all the bosses. But if Arcane or Frost is better, I would be glad to take my dps to higher rankings)

    Thanks in prehand.
    /Liveet

  2. #2
    I'm playing arcane for 10m hc (right now 10/16hc). It's so much harder to play well than fire (I could play fire without thinking, for arcane you have to think, don't get fool by the popular misconception than arcane=spam 1 button, not anymore) but you will get better numbers

  3. #3
    Blademaster Seabert's Avatar
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    To be fair it is a bit too early to say which spec is definately the best, anyone claiming otherwise is a colossal asshat. I'm personally trying out arcane aswell since I can't be arsed to play fire with its current gigantic rng factor. In my experience even on heavy movement fights arcane can be very strong if executed correctly, this simply means precasting your runes properly and learning how to manage your stacks, or how to keep them up to be more precise. Back in Firelands I hated playing arcane due to it being considerably more simple than it is now but for the moment I'm enjoying it a lot.

    My advice would be to go with whatever spec you feel most comfortable with, fire is still competitive, people are just exaggerating the effects of the nerf. If you want a real challenge I'd go arcane, it might be worse on some fights (Garalon/Wind Lord) but again if played optimally it won't be that bad.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Seabert View Post
    To be fair it is a bit too early to say which spec is definately the best, anyone claiming otherwise is a colossal asshat. I'm personally trying out arcane aswell since I can't be arsed to play fire with its current gigantic rng factor. In my experience even on heavy movement fights arcane can be very strong if executed correctly, this simply means precasting your runes properly and learning how to manage your stacks, or how to keep them up to be more precise. Back in Firelands I hated playing arcane due to it being considerably more simple than it is now but for the moment I'm enjoying it a lot.

    My advice would be to go with whatever spec you feel most comfortable with, fire is still competitive, people are just exaggerating the effects of the nerf. If you want a real challenge I'd go arcane, it might be worse on some fights (Garalon/Wind Lord) but again if played optimally it won't be that bad.
    There is not much difference except pressing a few more buttons. Arcane was still more involving than fire at cata if you were playing it to its max potential. Problem was difference between facerolling mage and min/maxing mage is so small. Check out some kill videos back in cata not the top guilds some other between 100-200th. You can even some of these mages are not playing arcane the way it supposed to be played. Seen many hc kills with the mage dont caring about his mana just spamming buttons and still top 5 in meters.

  5. #5
    Really, you're best off playing the one you like. After trying Arcane out a bit, I have to say that I just plainly don't like. The results, for me, aren't that much different than Frost, but I just feel clunkier.

  6. #6
    I like Frost a lot You are a lot saver on your DPS. You don't have that "OMG know I completely fucked up my whole DPS, because I somehow broke the rotation". Frost has a lot of stuff to watch (keep Frostbomb up, use FoF procs, use BF procs, use Frostorb thingy, track icy veins cooldown, track pet freeze cooldown), but you generally can't fuck up the whole rotation. With Fire it's so easy to have a shitty Combustion which totally ruins your DPS. As Arcane (didn't play it recently) I think you can also get into trouble when not having an eye on your mana. I like Frost and I will stick to it for a while. Maybe I can get some mastery gear, then I would try Arcane at some time. Currently I'm struggeling because I went from Fire to Frost and now I have a lot of hit/crit gear which obviously sucks as Frost.

  7. #7
    If you like fire, stay fire. Haven't personally seen any fights so far where the lower dps from fire will stop you killing the boss.

    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  8. #8
    Guys what your thoughts on which meta to use for arcane spec the +3% increase crit effect or +2% mana? and why?

    I appreciate your feedback "ïts my first post in mmo champion.

  9. #9

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Liveet View Post
    I have seen that all of the 25M top mages are playing Arcane atm, wich is understandable due to low movement in the most of 25hc fights.
    But how is it when it comes to 10hc fights? Will Arcane stand as top even there, due to the fairly amount of higher movement, or will frost and fire actually overcome it?
    I don't know where you are getting this information from but on just about every fight Fire > Arcane according to WorldofLogs. On the off occasion that an arcane parse is higher, there's a fire parse only 5% behind it.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vugara View Post
    Guys what your thoughts on which meta to use for arcane spec the +3% increase crit effect or +2% mana? and why?

    I appreciate your feedback "ïts my first post in mmo champion.
    Increased crit dmg does way more for you then a few thousand mana will. Sure arcane mages are a lot more mana focused then other mages but that still doesn't make 2% mana a gem you want to use.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cortic View Post
    I don't know where you are getting this information from but on just about every fight Fire > Arcane according to WorldofLogs. On the off occasion that an arcane parse is higher, there's a fire parse only 5% behind it.
    Am afraid that Worldoflogs doesn't purge its data, ever really. So those top fire mages you see are mostly from pre-nerfs and the very top mages on amber shaper are from bugged combustion still. There data you need to compare specs is still there, you just need something like raidbots to sort it through and if you do that even if you count cleave fights in for fire, arcane still pulls ahead and with excluding cleave fights, fire is suffering really bad atm, not that there aint other specs out there that are low.. like balance and elemental

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 11:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vugara View Post
    Guys what your thoughts on which meta to use for arcane spec the +3% increase crit effect or +2% mana? and why?

    I appreciate your feedback "ïts my first post in mmo champion.
    + mana wont do much for arcane anymore as mage mana regen is based on haste. Before so +2% mana will just increase your mana pool, nothing else, but your mana regen is still the same, as are the spell costs. Now there is a small gain from mastery, but it is nothing compared to how much +3% damage on crits gives.

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