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  1. #21
    Field Marshal Plwmar's Avatar
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    Well like they previously said if someone ends up needing 28g and 50s then they will join again.I tried going on msv with my shaman (2nd week in a row) she only has access to that and 0 loot dropped not even with coins.so yeah if you can't get items to increase your ilvl how does blizzard expect people to join the other 2 raids?Hence the longer queues on the final two lfr sections.
    She has been stuck on 468 for the past 2 weeks and honestly the drop chance is getting retarded to the point where people can't bother to enter lfr so much anymore.
    I have 2 mains right now (with whom I'm raiding and was trying to gear up my shaman to help a bit more with healing in my raid group but I literally cba to even try lfr again this week.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leanne View Post
    They should allow healers to choose whether to get items from the DPS or the healing pool. This solves the issue instantly.

    Why? Raiding healers get items from their raiding groups and use LFR to gear a DPS offspec. There are very few non-raiding healers, as healing LFR is incredibly boring.

    If I can choose to gear my offspec by queuing as a healer I'll do it for sure because of the instant queues. And since I won't be alone in this, the queue times will shorten at least 3-4 times for DPS as well.
    go further - choose what rold you want to play, and choose what loot you want to get. since you are no longer rolling against other people, who cares if an enhance shammy gets resto gear, or a frost DKgets tank gear. this will let people play the role they are best geared for while still giving them a reason to run LFR, and sicne everyone is playing their geared spec, LFR will be that much quicker!

  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk
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    I think its actually alot better and faster.
    Average of 10 min queues for dps (eu)
    Average of 30 min queues for tank (still eu)

    But most importantly queues fill up FAST again, no groups falling apart due to lack of people.
    I support the change! :P

  4. #24
    Maybe I just queue too late.

    11pm EU time on a Thursday, 49 min estimated queue for dps for Terrace. Fortunately, a guild healer offered to party with me so we got a 2 min estimated queue time.

    What time/day are you getting 10 min dps queues?

  5. #25
    They are longer. Why? Fuck if I know. But literally the week of the patch, queue times were fast as shit, then the week after, I queued at ~6 on Tuesday and I had to wait 30 minutes for Terrace. The new place with all the new gear. 30 minutes. I was like, what? Continued this week, too, 45 minutes for Terrace on Wednesday at ~6. As a DPS, by the way. But even my shaman had to wait 5-10 minutes for MoV parts 1 and 2 as a healer last week. Haven't queued with him yet this week.

    I barely even got Sha done in time last week, but I didn't have time off until Friday, got into two bad groups, killed it on Monday (close call). But I'm not sure that's relevant to LFR times. Was pretty frustrating though.

    Might be the progress not visible change.

    Could be anything else, though. I don't know. I just know it's lame.

  6. #26
    High Overlord Kissme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plwmar View Post
    Well like they previously said if someone ends up needing 28g and 50s then they will join again.I tried going on msv with my shaman (2nd week in a row) she only has access to that and 0 loot dropped not even with coins.so yeah if you can't get items to increase your ilvl how does blizzard expect people to join the other 2 raids?Hence the longer queues on the final two lfr sections.
    She has been stuck on 468 for the past 2 weeks and honestly the drop chance is getting retarded to the point where people can't bother to enter lfr so much anymore.
    I have 2 mains right now (with whom I'm raiding and was trying to gear up my shaman to help a bit more with healing in my raid group but I literally cba to even try lfr again this week.
    Part of that is because the new loot system is based around the same rough drop rates as normal raiding, but fails to account for the gear accumulation effect. In a normal raid your chance of getting the item you want increases every week because the chance of not seeing it decreases combined with the fact that it can only drop in a useful fashion for your raid group so many times. If there's 3 rogues in your raid group, by the third drop of gloves you get yours. They've based their table on the individual chance to obtain an item from the boss without factoring in the greater chance to gain an item every week due to overall raid gearing that's experienced in a normal raid group.

    In effect, the new LFR system will inherently gear you slower than the same number of runs done on normal.

    Couple this with natural attrition of demand as people gear through other avenues and the diminished interest due to repetition and you'll get longer waits as the content ages. Less people need gear the longer you go, and less people care to wait to go when they've already done the content 10 or 20 times. This combination will cause an inherent stagnation.

  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by econ21 View Post
    Maybe I just queue too late.

    11pm EU time on a Thursday, 49 min estimated queue for dps for Terrace. Fortunately, a guild healer offered to party with me so we got a 2 min estimated queue time.

    What time/day are you getting 10 min dps queues?
    I've noticed there's 2 hotstreaks for queues.
    First start when ppl get home at around 18.00-18.30, then it dies down around 20.00 and picks up again 21.00-21.30 and completely dies after 11 pm, which is when you queue
    This is weekdays, weekends it usually dies 00.00-00.30.

    Im on auchindoun eu, unsure what time zone :s
    Edit. This is for all besides terrace, which takes tad longer.(I belive ppl are just late getting there and it'll settle down in 2-3 resets.)
    Last edited by santa666; 2012-12-14 at 11:39 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Plwmar View Post
    Well like they previously said if someone ends up needing 28g and 50s then they will join again.I tried going on msv with my shaman (2nd week in a row) she only has access to that and 0 loot dropped not even with coins.so yeah if you can't get items to increase your ilvl how does blizzard expect people to join the other 2 raids?
    im in the same boat with my lock alt. currently the only way to hit 470 ilvl is spending a ton of gold. valor cap is low, getting jp to upgrade blues takes FOREVER, and lfr might as well be called looking for gold.

    things are pretty slow/rough when it comes to gearing alts, or even mains (all we see in normals is agility gear). at least for getting to the magic 470 ilvl number.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by parkerlynne View Post
    I haven't noticed much difference, except they progressively get longer as the week goes by since most raiders try to do them Tues/Weds and there aren't many people left to queue by the weekend.
    Also these latter weeks were the ones where people have gotten their last sigils... thus LFR becoming truly useless.

  10. #30
    the better players doesnt need LFR loot anymore, the weak players dont have req ilv, the middle ground has to accept the long w8 time

  11. #31
    Right after the patch I experienced que times went from ~10 minutes to 30-40 minutes.
    I will put something related here because otherwise I will never post about it. It has to do with offspec loot.

    Basically let's assume that I have a prot warrior. He has the chest from emperor and doing that encounter as a tank there is no loot to be gained. To optimalize my characters gear progression I have to only do will of the emp as DPS spec. What does that mean? As prot it means if I get a 0/3 group I will play until elegon and then leave. If I get a 2/3 group I will decline the inv. This repeats until I get a fresh 0/3 run as prot, after which I will leave after 2/3, respec DPS and que again. At this point, worst case is I do the first two bosses again and won't get loot, but at the third boss I might.

    The main thing to take away is that this can lead to tanks declining in availability after they have gained the one tank item from will since they wont be willing to do will as a tank anymore. Once tanks start to employ this strategy it can become harder for groups to form for will if they need a tank or tanks.

    This can apply to a variety of bosses/specs/classes and so forth. It also has to do with the loot table, if will of the emp had 3 tank item, it would take a lot longer before tanks wouldn't be willing to run the boss anymore since they would pretty much have to get all the items before that would happen. Even if some tanks don't need it, other tanks would be willing to do the 2/3 run more often.

    Now considering something like that has been happening that has been causing the rough process of grouping. You could for example look into the whole offspec loot system or tweak the loot tables perfectly (seems incredibly hard btw).

    If we look at what has been done and how that change can explain why we are seeing longer que times. The above process is still valid. People are still doing that. But now because they can't see the progress, rather than clicking decline for 10 minutes in a row before they get a suitable group they are forced to enter the dungeon. If it turns out they are in the situation where they have to leave (aka que as prot and get a 2/3 run) then they will do that. Now they have a 30 minute deserter buff before they can try again. That means this person isn't even available anymore, not even for the 0/3 run he would be willing to do and others might need him to as well.

    I just realized this two week. I'm sure people have been doing onto this since week one. I've already created a spreadsheet for one of my characters that I can use to figure out a most optimal route to using this "offspec queing system" in order to have the most chance of getting useful gear.

    Just thought it's an interesting take that both explains what was happening with the difficulty of getting groups, how the change has seemed to increase the que times and explains this using one of the core mechanics of the game which is to acquire gear which seems a very reasonable motivation to support it.
    Last edited by LKPVmnjler; 2012-12-14 at 12:46 PM.

  12. #32
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    I quit LFR because nothing useful ever dropped for my priest, and I just don't care enough about my shaman to kill 30 bosses for every 1 piece of loot.

    So yeah... I'm guessing there are plenty of other people in similar situations who are fed up with LFR. I'll be sticking to normal raids and arenas from now on.

  13. #33
    People have less active alts now that gearing up takes much longer, so there is less of characters doing LFR, so people are done with LFR faster just after reset day. That probably impacts the amount of healers the most, especially when normal raiding guilds need much less healers than LFR and rarely non-raiders play healers as a main class. I suppose a lot of healers in t13 LFR were alts, but now when getting enough gear to join LFR is quite frustrating with dungeons rng, dailies or spending quite a lot in AH, they just gave up.

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    I think queues also get longer because there is more LFR raids to queue for. While alts/newcomers are more likely to queue for MSV, people who are trying to get gear would queue for Terrace, and people who are trying to get Sigils of Wisdom will queue for HoF. And don't forget that both HoF and MSV have two LFR queues in each.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  15. #35
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKPVmnjler View Post
    Right after the patch I experienced que times went from ~10 minutes to 30-40 minutes.
    I will put something related here because otherwise I will never post about it. It has to do with offspec loot.

    Basically let's assume that I have a prot warrior. He has the chest from emperor and doing that encounter as a tank there is no loot to be gained. To optimalize my characters gear progression I have to only do will of the emp as DPS spec. What does that mean? As prot it means if I get a 0/3 group I will play until elegon and then leave. If I get a 2/3 group I will decline the inv.
    I didnt bother to read that massive wall... but ill offer a solution...
    Queue as dps for all instances, the few you do need tank gear, switch to tank spec and dps in battle stance, you should easily do 30-40k and not be noticed (play prot warrior myself...)

    I'd say the problem isnt tank decline, its that you only need 2 tanks for 25 ppl with an abundance of tanks this will have queues rising and will be a lot shorter for dps(which it is).

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 03:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    I quit LFR because nothing useful ever dropped for my priest, and I just don't care enough about my shaman to kill 30 bosses for every 1 piece of loot.

    So yeah... I'm guessing there are plenty of other people in similar situations who are fed up with LFR. I'll be sticking to normal raids and arenas from now on.
    Will you quit normal when you dont get any useful drops and/or dont win the roll ?

  16. #36
    From what I have seen, queues tend to be quickest just before and just after the raid resets, as well as weekend evenings. Pretty obvious reasons behind it. I do LFR at about the same time each week and I haven't noticed a difference after the patch (on dps toons).
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
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  17. #37
    I have noticed it too; I don't know what happened but after the patch I am waiting longer in queue to get in any lfr.

  18. #38
    High Overlord kennyisnotdead's Avatar
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    Last night which typically has no more then 15-20 max queues for anything on my super high pop horde realm.. Was 35-40min.

  19. #39
    Last night was 1 hour + on alliance us for TES.

  20. #40
    High Overlord Kissme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa666 View Post

    Will you quit normal when you dont get any useful drops and/or dont win the roll ?


    The difference, in general, is that when raiding normal you feel some obligation to your raid group because they're people you know and choose to raid with. Also, at a certain point, his raid group will stop doing normal either because they gear cap, or because they reach a point where there's new content and the chance of getting a useful piece of gear vs the time investment and improvement that gear offers no longer apply.

    If he runs 10 man normal, the raid will be fairly equally geared and the amount of shared gear is minimal, so everyone will be done with the raid at roughly the same time. If he runs 25 man normal, then he'll usually need to see more drops of the same piece, but the overall pacing remains roughly the same.

    The other difference is that normal and hard mode raids go significantly faster as your group gets in repetitions and gears up, whereas LFR runs usually go slower as time progresses because the geared people stop showing and the experienced people stop coming. So the actual gear to time investment in LFR becomes worse as you go, while the gear to time of organized raiding goes up.

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