“Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
"Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.
I remember my winters as a kid most actually had snow (21 now was 5-6). Nowdays in the middle of sweden it has been alot of random winters, either rain and snowslush or freezingly cold with piles of snow. What I mean is that it used to be balanced, now I never know what to expect to be honest oO.
North korea was a good example because they dont listen to anyone apparently, i used them for that reason more so than emissions.
"Let's give up because it's hard"
That was a hypothetical statement to present my point
Id think human rights trump polluting the air, call me crazy.
Last edited by chadwix; 2012-12-11 at 02:52 AM.
How about solving the world hunger crisis first?
How about solving world poverty first?
How about we work on world peace first? At least that way we won't be blowing each others new green tech up, destroying any positive effect it may have had.
Seriously, global warming should be at the very bottom of urgent issues we need to fix as a planet.
Cause and effect.
Everyone of these threads starts with denialism of the actual phenomena and eventually goes to, "well we can't do anything about it". I wonder what the next turn of the denialist movement will be.
The Earth naturally goes through periods of heating and cooling. I have seen nothing that convinces me that with out a doubt this is any different then one of the many heating periods we have had in the past.
LPing For The Future: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSayier
Because of threads like this that try to stifle debate.
I'm wrapping up a course on Science and Pseudoscience, and one of the topics we're ending with is Global Warming. And man, this entire debate is so fucking fabricated it makes me mad.
There's been warm and cold ages in the past. They're very slow and happen over thousands of years. Yes, our influence on the planet has some effect, but these periods of temperature changes happen regardless. There's also much shorter waves of fluctuation that last several decades each, but where temperatures don't reach the peak highs and lows of the longer periods. They don't come anywhere near, and fluctuations might be 1-2C over the median.
The long waves will reach peaks which can be extreme, on the verge of ice age (and sometimes into an ice age itself), or on the high peaks where temperatures are 15-20C above the median. At the moment, i'd probably guess we're on a slope up towards a high peak long wave, and a high peak short wave.
Both types of waves have been reported in the past (there was a high peak one in the 1400's i think), but there's no written evidence of the extreme low ones as they tend to start killing off life as the ice takes over. There is evidence in the earth's layers that provide evidence for ice ages, but nothing written or recorded by man.
So, while climate change does occur, it's mostly natural and expected. Sure, reducing emissions would help, but there'd be more health benefits from it, at least as long as we continue to cut down the forests and not replacing them. On the other hand, striking a balance between CO2 in the atmosphere and the number of trees on earth is a fine one.
If there's not enough trees, there's too much CO2 in the atmosphere and poor air quality is bad for us humans. If there are too many trees, there's too much oxygen in the atmosphere which while good for us, means that there's less carbon dioxide by percent-volume, which means some trees potentially die out.
As you can imagine, this is already happening, it's a cycle;
New Trees are born > Absorbs CO2 + Emits Oxygen = Better for Humans + Worse for Trees > Trees Die + Release CO2 = Better for Trees + Worse for Humans > New Trees are born
So, as you can see, even with the temperature waves, CO2 is being kept in balance. If we took all of the man-made emissions out of the world, we'd potentially kill of tree life in the short term, but the cycle would continue at a lower level and thus climate change would still continue to fluctuate as normal.