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  1. #1261
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    This proves that "peak oil is a scam, we are not running out of oil", how? It is impossible to argue against the fact that we will run out of oil.
    I think what he means, and what is usually meant by "peak oil" in these discussions is that we're now at the peak or have already passed it, and it's all downhill from here.

  2. #1262
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    That's really the only point of significance in your thinly veiled political drivel against imaginary "leftist greeny prophets".


    This proves that "peak oil is a scam, we are not running out of oil", how? It is impossible to argue against the fact that we will run out of oil.
    Then leftists shouldn't be that daring, keep dates out. You liked the article by the way? I, particularly, like this part:

    "The automatic correction – resource depletion destroying the machine that was driving it – that many environmentalists foresaw is not going to happen. The problem we face is not that there is too little oil, but that there is too much."

    This is a bad dream for some i believe:

    "The world's most powerful nation is again becoming an oil state, and if the political transformation of its northern neighbour is anything to go by, the results will not be pretty"
    Last edited by larrakeyah; 2013-01-15 at 01:30 PM.

  3. #1263
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    I think what he means, and what is usually meant by "peak oil" in these discussions is that we're now at the peak or have already passed it, and it's all downhill from here.
    If it was, then he hasn't made it very clear. His posts read like he's disputing the idea that we will ever run out of oil.

    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    Then leftists shouldn't be that daring, keep dates out.
    Nobody cares. This irrelevant to the real debate over climate change. "Leftist", indeed.

  4. #1264
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    The discussion about "peak oil" is irrelevant to this thread, and we should get back on topic, folks.

  5. #1265
    Global warming is a fact, just the causes are heavily debated.

    I think for anyone who does any serious (so, look at the actual scientific reports) research it's pretty obvious that we're not helping the situation, though.

  6. #1266
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    If it was, then he hasn't made it very clear. His posts read like he's disputing the idea that we will ever run out of oil.

    Nobody cares. This irrelevant to the real debate over climate change. "Leftist", indeed.
    I made my point clear, we will not run out of oil, we will not run out of cheap oil in my lifetime.

    Someone brought resources depletion to the debate, so someone cared. It has a lot to do with climate change or global warming or whatever it's called, the enviromentalist paradigm (I'm generous here) has changed from the exhausting of resources to the evil of those same resources. When they realised they couldn't keep telling the "running out of X" lie they changed to blaming the use of the same resources "we should have exhausted years ago".

    Stopping right now, the mod posted while i was typing.

  7. #1267
    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21 View Post
    There have been many threads about global warming in this off-topic forum, and it usually has the pro-global warming saying "give me a study to back up your claims or gtfo." Now we have this thread with no evidence, just 1 subjective observation from somewhere in Canada...
    You should probably read the thread before saying it has no evidence. The OP doesn't but the rest of the thread is chocked full of it.

  8. #1268
    The Lightbringer bergmann620's Avatar
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    One thing that cracks me up is that, politically, the same side that is against government austerity is pro-energy austerity.
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  9. #1269
    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    When they realised they couldn't keep telling the "running out of X" lie they changed to blaming the use of the same resources "we should have exhausted years ago".
    Who is "they"?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-15 at 09:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    One thing that cracks me up is that, politically, the same side that is against government austerity is pro-energy austerity.
    I don't know why that's funny. Two expressions having the same word doesn't somehow make them related; being in favor of cutting one thing doesn't mean that one wants to cut anything.

  10. #1270
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    I made my point clear, we will not run out of oil, we will not run out of cheap oil in my lifetime.
    If you're flexible on the definition of "cheap", sure. The Athabasca oil sands/tar sands/whatever they're called this week have epic amounts of oil. It's just slow, messy, and expensive to extract that oil and is further annoyance to get it into a useful form.

  11. #1271
    We have 250 years of oil left.

    That doesn't mean that all 250 of those years will be cheap. Extraction can get expensive when the sources become inefficient.

    That's not even taking into consideration the effects on the environment, which is what this entire thread is about.

  12. #1272
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post
    That's not even taking into consideration the effects on the environment, which is what this entire thread is about.
    Actually the inevitable end of oil was brought up as an additional selling point to green energy, aside from the main point which was the environment. So I don't think it was totally off topic for the hippies to bring it up.

  13. #1273
    The Lightbringer bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post

    I don't know why that's funny. Two expressions having the same word doesn't somehow make them related; being in favor of cutting one thing doesn't mean that one wants to cut anything.
    The essence of government right there.

    My point is simple:

    If cutting government spending is going to harm the 'recovery', wouldn't escalating energy costs do the same?
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  14. #1274
    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    The essence of government right there.
    What, being discriminant in spending? It seems like you're just spouting taglines at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    If cutting government spending is going to harm the 'recovery', wouldn't escalating energy costs do the same?
    The two aren't really even related. People proposing climate mitigation strategies implemented over decades aren't at all arguing the same thing as people that want to cut hundreds of billions in spending now, now, NOW.

    So, I guess the humor is in torching the fuck out of strawmen. Have fun, I guess.

  15. #1275
    The Lightbringer bergmann620's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    What, being discriminant in spending? It seems like you're just spouting taglines at this point.
    You didn't read the bolded part very carefully, did you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    The two aren't really even related. People proposing climate mitigation strategies implemented over decades aren't at all arguing the same thing as people that want to cut hundreds of billions in spending now, now, NOW.
    Electricity in California costs twice the national average. NOW.

    California has also been declared the worst place to start a business in the country for like 9 years running.

    They have plenty of climate mitigation strategies in play, though.
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  16. #1276
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bergmann620 View Post
    You didn't read the bolded part very carefully, did you?



    Electricity in California costs twice the national average. NOW.

    California has also been declared the worst place to start a business in the country for like 9 years running.

    They have plenty of climate mitigation strategies in play, though.
    California utility companies are pieces of shit and I'm more inclined to believe that the high costs here are because they're fucking bastards and not so much due to environmental regulation. At one point, water usage was down in San Diego because people were conserving water to save money (and for various other reasons, maybe). What was the water company's response to people being good and conserving water? They raised the rates because profits went down. We used less water and ended up paying more. Regulations provide a convenient scapegoat; they can screw us and blame it on regulations.

    Hell, in Taiwan the water companies actually thank you when you use less water, not charge you more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejablue View Post
    Is physics forever relegated to reiterating integrals that can never approach the derivative limits of true reality?
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  17. #1277
    Mechagnome larrakeyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    California utility companies are pieces of shit and I'm more inclined to believe that the high costs here are because they're fucking bastards and not so much due to environmental regulation.
    http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/eper_10.htm

    It's a bit dense, but it's worth the read.

  18. #1278
    Climate changed has happened before continues to happen and will continue to happen as long as there is an earth.

    Did you know it was a lot hotter during the time of the dinosaurs than now?

    We have geologically speaking just come out of an iceage. Now are we adding to this? Probably but we've only have a few years of data to go by and with these sorts of things more study is required.

    One thing is for sure we are consuming a lot of the natural resources, look at fish for example we really should be allowing fish stocks to re-supply more effectively but in the EU they just allow them to continue over fishing. madness to the max.

  19. #1279
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Climate changed has happened before continues to happen and will continue to happen as long as there is an earth.

    Did you know it was a lot hotter during the time of the dinosaurs than now?

    We have geologically speaking just come out of an iceage. Now are we adding to this? Probably but we've only have a few years of data to go by and with these sorts of things more study is required.
    This has been addressed already.

  20. #1280
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by larrakeyah View Post
    http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/eper_10.htm

    It's a bit dense, but it's worth the read.
    Yea, that's why I said in my post that I'm more inclined to believe what I wrote if only because we've been screwed so hard by the water company. Never said it was based in reality, since I haven't done anywhere near enough research to make an actual informed statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejablue View Post
    Is physics forever relegated to reiterating integrals that can never approach the derivative limits of true reality?
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

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