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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Blood dk mastery 170%

    im at 170% mastery atm (raidbuffed), read somewhere that after this u should got stamina where possible?

    Anyone can back this up?? ty in fw
    Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock

  2. #2
    Mastery's value is linear, as in there is no specific (reachable) number where mastery becomes mathematically less valuable. Instead, you should be looking at how much stamina you need and then going all out mastery. find the stamina first, then go for mastery. not the other way around.

  3. #3
    Arnazza i believe there is some actual point where Stamina becomes more valuable personally im not 100% where it is however. I was sitting at 197% mastery at which point mrrobot had me change glove enchant and pretty much all gems to stamina, stam mast.
    [QUOTE=Tomoe;10603207]Hi all,
    We have engaged Chimaeron Hc 10 man this night, and we have faced a strange situation...sometimes (but before or after, it happens), chimaeron make 2 attack in a row with like 0.2 or 0.3 second between the 2 attack...clearly, with the first attack the tank go to 1 hp, with the second is dead.
    It's so fast that in the interface we see an instant kill.

  4. #4
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    Mastery's value is linear, as in there is no specific (reachable) number where mastery becomes mathematically less valuable. Instead, you should be looking at how much stamina you need and then going all out mastery. find the stamina first, then go for mastery. not the other way around.
    516213 hp here tho, and i die very difficult
    but i just wondered bout it !
    then its more like i want 170% over 516213 (comfortable)
    then say 190% over 430000(uncomfortanle)
    Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock

  5. #5
    again, don't use your mastery to determine whats comfortable. use your stamina. It sounds like you feel you have enough stam, so keep going for mastery.

  6. #6
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    again, don't use your mastery to determine whats comfortable. use your stamina. It sounds like you feel you have enough stam, so keep going for mastery.
    i did use my stamina just now

    516213 (comfortable)
    430000(uncomfortable)

    at the uncomfortable situation i would gain more health then mastery(obv)
    at the comfortable situation im happy with sta and the rest i can forge to mastery
    Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock

  7. #7

  8. #8
    base you stamina on how much you need to take 2-3 seconds (or usually 2 hits) of unmitigated damage and survive... then go mastery...

    I think the mastery cap is very high so you won't reach it.
    The cap you can reach is usually the cap for blood shield = your HP. it means that you can stack blood shield untill your hp...
    (this depends on your HP, on your mastery and on the damage you take... So its a lot depending on the fight)

    So in some boss fights you can reach that cap easily, usually when you taunt switch. but when fighting normally its kinda safe to go full out on mastery after having a safe/comfortable HP

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by elderamy View Post
    I think the mastery cap is very high so you won't reach it.
    It's 1428.57% mastery.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  10. #10
    Get at least 600kHP buffed up. Then make sure you have 7.5% hit and 7.5% expert (but don't leave yourself with no mastery or little just try only reforge out of dodge/parry if you can and leave mastery alone.). Then go full out mastery as much as possible. Also you would want to reforge any dodge to parry/hit/mastery/expert as chances are your parry will be suffering diminishing returns (10% dodge 20%parry sounds like an imbalance but at that point 100 parry would still be more than 100 dodge would be worth in terms of % due to the DR's.)

    Everyone has a different play style but tanking without missing and because all your moves will always hit you will generate more runes for more death strikes and do more DPS. Its a win win.

    Stam (to around 600k buffed)> Mastery> Hit/Expert to 7.5% > Armor > Parry > Dodge > Stam (yes listed again but this is after 600k hp) a little haste can do wonders also personally I would fit haste in before parry and dodge.
    Last edited by Domiku; 2012-12-08 at 02:14 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Domiku View Post
    Then make sure you have 7.5% hit and 7.5% expert. Then go full out mastery
    U mad? If tank dps important in your raid: hp 600k+ > mastery > caps
    If tank dps doesn't matter: hp 600k+ > mastery > avoidance
    Never ever since 4.2 caps would more important than mastery.
    Last edited by r_deniel; 2012-12-08 at 10:18 AM.

  12. #12
    its not for tank dps u cap for The more you hit the more chance you have of generating runes for death strikes.. Hit/Expert caps are a grate way to help the raid out and yourself.

    Think of it this way, if you have healers having no issue healing you anyway why not help the dps out and make the fight go faster

    Just going to quote Trvi from EJ here as its explained nice.
    Tank DPS matters

    Ask a DPS player if he would like to do 10k or more DPS. Chances are that they would not only say yes but would even sacrifice you to their dark gods if they could - just to do more DPS (and probably because you asked a really stupid question ). Then why is the public perception that tank damage is not important? We need to try and change that, especially now that we have the new Vengeance which scales tank damage up proportional to how much damage we take with no cap - which will help equalize the importance of a 25 man tank's DPS compared to a 10 man tank.
    Any way you look at it, tank damage matters, especially on progression fights. I'm sure many of you had sub 1% wipes and wondered if it would have been a kill if anyone - maybe even you - had just done a little bit more DPS (a common counter-argument is to ask your DPS to step up - which is a fair point - but if you can help out, why would you not do it?).
    My point is that as long as you don't atleast try to improve your DPS (just as long as you don't get yourself killed), you are not performing as well as you could. Help your raid out where you can, it's part of being a good tank and a raider after all.

    And with all things, be reasonable. You do not need to sit on Runes on content that doesn't have a chance to kill you nor should you start Heart Striking with your Death Runes to improve your DPS on a boss that can kill you within a Death Strike interval. Use common sense.
    Stat priority

    Most stat priorities you will find for tanks have been simmed or mathed out with one thing in mind: reducing total damage taken throughout the fight and, as addressed earlier, this is not what is going to kill you. There is simply no simulator or sheet that accurately emulates how a human would play a Blood Death Knight. Most of these models "cheat" by assuming static incoming damage (maybe a special hit at fixed intervals at most), setting Death Strike to be executed at a fixed interval (usually whenever it's ready) and then comparing which gear and spec permutations end up giving you the least damage taken which will highly undervalue hit/exp for survival and overvalue avoidance compared to mastery (don't get me wrong, sims are not a bad thing; they just don't work as well for tanking purposes as they do for DPS).
    With that in mind, here is what we came up with:

    Method 1: Prioritizing avoidance over accuracy:
    Enough health to survive the worst case scenario > Mastery > Dodge/Parry > 7.5% Hit > 7.5% Exp > Haste

    Method 2: Prioritizing accuracy over avoidance:
    Enough health to survive the worst case scenario > Mastery > 7.5% Hit > 7.5% Exp > Dodge/Parry > Haste

    (7.5% Expertise/Hit equate to 2550 rating each. Hit is more useful because of Rune Strike so if you have to make a choice between capping Hit and spreading it between Hit and Exp, cap Hit first so you can always land a Rune Strike for reliable threat and Tier 5 procs.)

    Both ways to gear will leave the lionshare of survival in your own hands since the heavy mastery focus makes triggering Blood Shield even more important than if you had just stacked avoidance and relied on your passive stats to get you through the fight (as a matter of fact, Blood Shield and avoidance fill a very similar role and I will get to that in more detail here; the short version is that Blood Shield is more reliable on short term because you can trigger at will).

    Method 2 takes this a step further by ensuring that your Death Strike (and all your spells, including the all important Outbreak) will never miss against a raid boss so it removes yet another layer of RNG and puts more of your survival into your own hands. In addition, you gain a non-trivial amount of DPS on top of things which - combined with all the other advantages - makes Method 2 my favorite.
    The fact that you will naturally get some gear with accuracy stats on them and that accuracy ratings are much cheaper per 1% than avoidance also helps keep the avoidance difference between Method 1 and 2 pretty small.
    And finally, note that we lost the free 9% spell hit from Runic Focus as well so gearing for exp/hit helps compensate for that, too. That said, you will not be able to (soft) cap either stat without sacrificing Mastery until you are in item level ~500 gear.
    Both ways of doing it are fine, but personally I like #2 also with caps the extra dps does help and yeah getting rid of some RNG is a bonus also. It just makes life as a tank more easy.

    Gone are the days of Parry, parry, parry, miss on pull and my outbreak used for nothing wasting resources and damage and vengeance.

    Edit: I did put mastery in wrong order on first post on here that was a mistake, my bad. Have edited to show what I really meant (it was late long day heh)

    You will find yourself in low end gear loosing some mastery though to get cap. An example would be you get some kit with Parry and Dodge on it. Instead of changing the dodge to mastery you would likely have to change it to hit or expert to get cap, thus ending up with less mastery overall to reach the 7.5% hit/Expert. With high end gear it should be possible to get hit/expert on gear and make cap but in theory you will always loose some mastery but it should be slight.

    On my kit I lost around 8% mastery and 2% dodge/parry to hit the cap, so not a bad trade considering I am doing like double the damage, having no threat issues and healers are having no issues and infact not even noticing any difference. It feels much more nice to play aswell. Also just for into I am doing 25man raids / heroics.

    Its nice for guild to help out with those tight enrages :P
    Last edited by Domiku; 2012-12-08 at 02:37 PM.

  13. #13
    indeed the hit/exp cap is very low and it plays soooo much smoother with it, i barely lost any dodge/parry and i avoided to reforge mastery away + hit/exp gives you more scent of blood
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  14. #14
    Tank DPS isn't important unless you're solo tanking a fight like Windlord and do a large portion of the raid's damage. Hitting hit and Expertise caps is lower on the priority list for a majority of fights.

    Let me clarify. I mean to say, tank DPS isn't that important in 25 mans. It probably is more so in 10 mans considering tank damage is almost trivial in 10 mans.

  15. #15
    I dont play a blood dk, but all of you blood dk's out there be thankful, i play a Brewmaster Monk which is the most fun ive ever had tanking on a class but its annoying i have to get 7.5% hit and 15% expertise (Which is hard cap) My health is pretty low i think i have about 570k fully raid buffed

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by r_deniel View Post
    U mad? If tank dps important in your raid: hp 600k+ > mastery > caps
    If tank dps doesn't matter: hp 600k+ > mastery > avoidance
    Never ever since 4.2 caps would more important than mastery.
    Tanks need to be hit/exp. capped now. Welcome to 5.0.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tibe View Post
    Tanks need to be hit/exp. capped now. Welcome to 5.0.
    Apart from doing more DPS, there is no Blood DK mechanic that requires you to be hit/expertise capped to tank effectively. Hit/expertise are on a low priority for survivability. Dead last, actually, as even haste is better.

    Whether you can afford to take the survivability hit to hit/expertise cap is dependent on how you play, how your healers play, and what your raid needs. If your raid struggles with DPS, then that would make hit/expertise more attractive. If your raid doesn't, then the additional DPS is of a lesser value.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    Let me clarify. I mean to say, tank DPS isn't that important in 25 mans.
    Any DPS is important.

  19. #19
    Keyboard Turner Sirlunar's Avatar
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    Yeh i was sitting around 170% mastery to, but have had aggro issue's so went for hit and expertise cap and i am feeling very very comfortable now, 680k hp raid buffed, 140% mastery, and my TPS is awesome!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by tibe View Post
    Tanks need to be hit/exp. capped now. Welcome to 5.0.
    DS - cant be parried and heal even if missed
    RS - can only miss
    HS - rune instantly refreshed if strike didnt hit
    Scent of blood - u srs? it just some passive heal, like worms.
    You can get UB in talents if outbreak misses make you suffer.
    One fight when i can lost aggro - spirit kings HM, when on 1 phase i have ~6k vengeance when other raid bursts with prepot and bloodlast.
    So, why in the world i must reforge to caps? No, tank dps lost importance with dps gear growth - my dps stays at 50-60k, when dps jump from 40k to 80k+

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirlunar View Post
    Yeh i was sitting around 170% mastery to, but have had aggro issue's so went for hit and expertise cap and i am feeling very very comfortable now, 680k hp raid buffed, 140% mastery, and my TPS is awesome!
    >problems with aggro
    >2013

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