Page 1 of 9
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    It is official SWTOR is P2W

    There is an official post from bioware on their forums and they state that:

    It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.


    This makes the game 100% p2w.

    All of the post is here:
    Hi everyone,

    I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

    Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

    Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

    We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

    It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

    We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

    I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

    Thank you for your patience.

  2. #2
    I didn't realize so many people played the space missions until I saw the uproar over this.

    So pay to win...a mini-game?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I didn't realize so many people played the space missions until I saw the uproar over this.

    So pay to win...a mini-game?

    i loved the space missions when i used to play the game regularly 6-7 months back or so (believe thats about when i quit). i tried the f2p option the other night, and i was absolutely annoyed to hell that i had to use cartel coins just to do level 7 missions. i wont nearly play this game enough to grind the currency, and there is no way in hell im spending money on the them.

    yeah their f2p model is absolutely horrendous (i dont typically complain about games btw). a good hour just reinstalling/patching the game, to turn around and remove from the hard drive. again....

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I didn't realize so many people played the space missions until I saw the uproar over this.

    So pay to win...a mini-game?
    A mini-game that has no leaderboards, no competitive value whatsoever. There's literally no way to even look at it in a competitive value since they're all timed countdown and on-rails; best case you could maybe say "oh I finished the objective in X amount of time" but again, since it's all fully scripted, there's a minimum amount of time investment available before the objective IS complete-able at all.

    tl;dr OP doesn't know what 'pay to win' means.

  5. #5
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bear Taco, Left Hand of Death
    Posts
    14,209
    Well, even though I am one of the ones who thought it was pay to win as soon as we saw this...the high cost of obtaining the items without cash is where the large issue is with this. And the fact that it is the highest level of gear available. I think their philosophy is probably little more than damage control, but it definitely frames what is happening in a better light than I have been thinking about it.

    Though it is very troubling that they have no issue with the idea of straight up buying gear as long as "both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes"...it does kinda echo that they have no problems with pay to win, even though they explicitly said 1 month ago this wouldn't happen.

    Also:
    neither being far more efficient or effective than the other
    Am I the only crazy person who thinks being able to instantly get things for money is both more effective and efficient than having to grind for hours doing any activity to get the same things?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 02:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiar View Post
    tl;dr OP doesn't know what 'pay to win' means.
    Or possibly you have no clue, seeing that you can use the rewards from space missions to get gear and crafting recipes...not to mention that it's a part of the PvE game regardless.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I didn't realize so many people played the space missions until I saw the uproar over this.

    So pay to win...a mini-game?
    No kidding.

    I bet many of the same people yelling, "OMG It's P2W" were also the people that grip about the space combat being a mini game and how worthless and you can skip should you want to since it amounts to nothing more than a little side entertainment.

    Now, I get this is cutting it close to a P2W concept but from the looks of the BW post, they really don't plan on that happening. Maybe the cut it to close this time and through bad design or forethought, they missed the mark but even now to me, they have not crossed that imaginary P2W line.

    The space combat part of this game is so laughable especially at end game when it's really not needed but for some side entertainment.

  7. #7
    How is buying ship parts pay to win?

    Space missions are next to impossible already. You mean Pay to Complete.

    Also, do you play the game? There is no Space PVP, there is no advancement, it simply a mini-game. If you can tell me how to bring my spaceship into the Huttball field, I am all ears.

    Parts don't affect the way your ship looks, no one else can see what parts are on your ship. It affects the game in no way.

    If anything, they need to lower the material requirements for crafters to make these parts.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Am I the only crazy person who thinks being able to instantly get things for money is both more effective and efficient than having to grind for hours doing any activity to get the same things?
    Efficient, yes. Effective? Depends on the person's budget and the price tag, so it's subjective. To the person with plenty of disposable income, it's definitely both. To someone without, it's only one. However, it's P2W, plain and simple. I wonder what the defense will be considering how hardcore the defense was for allowing endgame stat crystals to be bought off the Cartel Market as well. I called it then and this is just another reinforcement. The game is P2W.

  9. #9
    Who are you winning against by buying ship parts, exactly? Are you going to be the preferable choice for an operation slot, or overpower other players in warzones?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Efficient, yes. Effective? Depends on the person's budget and the price tag, so it's subjective. To the person with plenty of disposable income, it's definitely both. To someone without, it's only one. However, it's P2W, plain and simple. I wonder what the defense will be considering how hardcore the defense was for allowing endgame stat crystals to be bought off the Cartel Market as well. I called it then and this is just another reinforcement. The game is P2W.
    Endgame crystal stats can be used against other players (ie, put in weapons to be used in PVP, WPVP, etc).

    How does Space PVP work in SWTOR?

    The 2 items have no relation what so ever.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Who are you winning against by buying ship parts, exactly? Are you going to be the preferable choice for an operation slot, or overpower other players in warzones?
    That's not the point at all. You missed it by a galaxy or maybe a universe.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Who are you winning against by buying ship parts, exactly? Are you going to be the preferable choice for an operation slot, or overpower other players in warzones?
    Can't see but 5 feet in front of your face. They put these on there to gauge the response of the subscribers. They didn't expect the kind of uproar it's caused, but they're most obviously toeing the water with these ideas. It's not something new for them. First it was the crystals. Now it's ship parts. It's the beginning of the pattern.

  13. #13
    That post does not make anything official, so please stop your sensationalism.

    That being said, it does have me extremely worried.
    Last edited by iceberg265; 2012-12-13 at 07:34 PM.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
    Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.
    SWTOR Referral link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2MpjV9 7 free days and other free stuff.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Can't see but 5 feet in front of your face. They put these on there to gauge the response of the subscribers. They didn't expect the kind of uproar it's caused, but they're most obviously toeing the water with these ideas. It's not something new for them. First it was the crystals. Now it's ship parts. It's the beginning of the pattern.
    A conspiracy that they are so desperate to make money that they are willing to let people cheese parts of the game for cash?

  15. #15
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bear Taco, Left Hand of Death
    Posts
    14,209
    I feel like most of the people in this thread don't understand you get commendations for gear from these now...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ariakul View Post
    Endgame crystal stats can be used against other players (ie, put in weapons to be used in PVP, WPVP, etc).

    How does Space PVP work in SWTOR?

    The 2 items have no relation what so ever.
    Dailies that award commendations for gear. Yeah, the correlation is there. Besides, P2W isn't just PvP focused. Against other players doesn't matter. It's any form of buying gear, or other high powered weapons, to make you a competitive equal to anybody else.

  17. #17
    I don't get it, you get those at the very end 50 so its not like you're doing it for the exp.
    Its not a contest or whatsoever.
    I did hear that you can get something from space missions at some point ( if not already ) apart from the current crap thats available
    But who cares really.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I feel like most of the people in this thread don't understand you get commendations for gear from these now...
    Why does that even matter? You still have to beat the missions, and even with the gear, they are tough.

    I am very much against the space parts in the cartel market, but calling it pay to win is stupid, and complaining about the comms is even more stupid.

    Like I said, though, I am extremely worried that this is just a stepping stone towards worse things.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.
    Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.
    SWTOR Referral link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2MpjV9 7 free days and other free stuff.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    Why does that even matter? You still have to beat the missions, and even with the gear, they are tough.

    I am very much against the space parts in the cartel market, but calling it pay to win is stupid
    Does having the gear make it easier to win? Can you pay to receive this gear? Yes? Then it's Pay 2 Win.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    Dailies that award commendations for gear. Yeah, the correlation is there. Besides, P2W isn't just PvP focused. Against other players doesn't matter. It's any form of buying gear, or other high powered weapons, to make you a competitive equal to anybody else.
    Using those commendations to buy other ship parts or social gear (flight suits) with no attachments in them affects other players how?
    Pay to Win means paying real life money in order to beat other players. How do these ship parts affect you in PVP or doing space missions?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •