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  1. #1

    I need a blunt answer on my decision for fire and frost

    There are tons of threads on here debating what is now the top spec after the nerfs to combustion and critical mass. People are saying that fire is still decent, people are saying frost is now better. I've heard that now with this nerf the more gear you get on fire the less dps you will have. Some are saying to just wait it out and see what happens next Tuesday because blizz is monitoring our meters. I just want a definitive answer, should I switch to frost, and regem/ reforge everything to what frost needs, or should I stay with Fire/ wait it out to see if we get some changes next week.

    I know there are threads with other opinions, but I'm not really finding a definitive answer, and I'd really like to know if I can stay fire for progression, or if I'm hurting my guild.

  2. #2
    I recommend switching.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Shekita's Avatar
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    If you're REALLY good at fire...and I mean really good, you can stay fire.

    If you're as good as the typical WoW player, than switch specs for progression sake imo.

  4. #4
    Pit Lord Eurytos's Avatar
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    I changed from fire to frost yesterday. re-gemmed and reforged everything. I like frost enough that it wasn't too hard a decision even if fire is slightly better in the end. unless specs are dramatically different, whichever one you are better at is likely to yield you the best dmg. thats where the game is at now, no spec is so much better than the others, that simply switching makes a huge difference. not just for mages, but all specs with multiple dmg specs. whichever youre better at, is the one to go with.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rytos/advanced

    If there's one thing I'm not, it's in control.

  5. #5
    I'm not a progression raider currently, but I'm a pretty solid player, and I've very much enjoyed switching over to Frost. Your mileage may vary, but I think it's got a really nifty feel that's quite different than most specs, and you'll pull competitive DPS as long as you're competent.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    I just want a definitive answer, should I switch to frost, and regem/ reforge everything to what frost needs, or should I stay with Fire/ wait it out to see if we get some changes next week.
    At this point in time? If you are FoTM switching specs then you best as well just throw some dice. The FoTM spec this week may very well be in the dumpster next week, and vice versa. Sometimes it feels like the entire mage class is on a roller-coaster ride...

    Your best bet right now? Play what you enjoy. God knows you'd drive yourself insane if you intend on switching specs every-time a new FoTM comes a long.

    They should change it to FoTW (flavor of the week) since it seems to change on a week by week basis.

    Especially now that Blizzard has displayed their propensity to make game changingly >>massive<< balance changes with a hotfix.

    Things could change overnight, again.
    "Zom is like that ace in the hole you keep for when shit hits the fan and you need a clutch. Unleash him when the need is most dire and watch how in just a few globals all your problems fade away. Mostly because they all just got melted."
    - High Warlord Daemon, PvP Officer, rBG Lead

  7. #7
    If you like playing frost, by all means switch. The numbers I've seen from frost today are great. If you only like playing fire, then wait until next Tuesday to see if anything changes. It's what I'm doing. I don't like the other specs so if they don't fix it, it'll be my last day of wow until the next expansion (which is ok, i'm comfortable with that decision now).

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Serendia's Avatar
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    I played fire and changed to frost after nerf. We're only doing normal but I can give you numbers:
    MV:
    after nerf (dps) Dec 2 2012: frost (dps):6 Dec. 2012
    Stone guards: - 6,7k +26,5k
    Feng: - 5,8k + 2,8k
    Garajal: +10 k +24,5k (numbers on this fight are usually not precisely)
    Kings: -10,1k + 1,6k
    Elegon: -15,6k -15,7k (sucked on this today)
    Emps.: - 2,4k + 5,2k

    Hof:
    Zorlok: -11,4k - 3,7k
    Tayak: -16,8k +13,4k
    Garalon: -19,7k (wiped xD) - 0,5k

    These are my numbers. Decide what you want to do I always loved fire. But I just wanted to try it out and I'm ranked first time - probably because most of us are still playing fire xD But as you can see there is much difference in the numbers. + and - are in comparison to the dmg I did with fire Nov 22 (before nerf).

  9. #9
    I swapped over to frost because I really like the spec and I don't think my damage has suffered at all. Obviously I'm not doing as much as pre nerf fire but still doing well on the meters. A big problem for me atm is lack of haste gear and most of my hc pieces are Hit+Crit because I was playing fire, so cant quite push the perfect numbers I want to be seeing yet.

  10. #10
    I also hesitated a lot between Fire/Frost (I like both) but as I feel more comfortable with frost in PvP, I finally choose frost in PvE. Using the same spec made my life easier to manage macro, remember shortcuts, read forums ^^ etc. Last LFR I did I was also the only frost mage...so without me they would all miss the wonderful blebulebulbuleble sound of my pet ....

  11. #11
    I switched to Frost and yes my numbers are lower than pre-nerf, but not so low that I'm uncompetitive with my guild. I've been within 1% of my guild mates, a Fury Warrior and a post buff BM hunter, and ahead of the other DPS we swap in and out. Some fights I've outright trounced my guild mates with frost like Stone Guard. I'm quite happy I switched to Frost as my damage is highly consistent, my rotation is flexible and I can now provide ample damage during burst windows like pushing extra orbs on Elegon or getting some damage on Garalon's legs before our Fury warrior can burst it down, something that was not as reliable as a Fire mage. Assuming the guillotine doesn't swing back and fire gets its crit back, I'll be staying Frost. Or re-rolling if Arcane pulls ahead by even close to the margin fire was at (even before the 5.1 buff).

  12. #12
    THe rulership of fire just got postponed by a tier by this nerf.
    switching now means switching again next tier. If you got the time/gear/ressources/willpower to do so, then do it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    THe rulership of fire just got postponed by a tier by this nerf.
    switching now means switching again next tier. If you got the time/gear/ressources/willpower to do so, then do it.
    A lot of guilds deal with tight enrage timers every week. Not switching isn't an option for many mages.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Megotaku77 View Post
    A lot of guilds deal with tight enrage timers every week. Not switching isn't an option for many mages.
    ok i should addd a /need to that list.
    Or formulate it the other way round.
    "If you like fire, and can afford to provide your raid with just 90% of your dmg potential right now, you will be fine next tier again. nothing speaks against switching, just be prepared to switch again. So finally i mean, even if you go arcane now or frost, get that crit gear if you have the chance to."

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    ok i should addd a /need to that list.
    Or formulate it the other way round.
    "If you like fire, and can afford to provide your raid with just 90% of your dmg potential right now, you will be fine next tier again. nothing speaks against switching, just be prepared to switch again. So finally i mean, even if you go arcane now or frost, get that crit gear if you have the chance to."
    Fire is more than 10% behind the other specs in average DPS. Recent parses from Elegon and Feng on raidbots have placed fire at 21st among 26 DPS specs on 7 day averages and these averages are not expected to bottom out for another 7 days. Moreover its got the widest RNG gap of any spec in the game by far. Parses have already released ranging from only an 8% nerf to a 30% nerf, all related directly to RNG. The choice to remain fire is a choice to be unreliable, inconsistent and on average 17% lower than your optimal. We already have mages at the top of the gear scale, and they are moving away from Fire toward Arcane (Blatty from Method for example), so needless to say the best of those among us have determined Fire scaling will not be competitive until at least the next tier of raiding. Really, there's no reason at all to collect Fire gear if the nerfs aren't rolled back in some measure.

    I'm sorry I don't mean to be argumentative, but I feel strongly at this point telling people to stay fire is bad advice. Snagging gear that's going to be DE'd anyway, why not? But going Fire at this point is choosing Marksman hunter or Subtlety Rogue. Yeah under ideal circumstances they can push the numbers, but they aren't going to be there consistently due to fundamental flaws with their spec design. Fire is no different.

  16. #16
    Stayed fire, still way ahead of everything in range, though the gap has closed up a bit. Like my GM said in yesterday's raid, they nerfed the spec, not the skill of the one who plays it.

    If you were good at fire before you may stay so. If you can play other specs better, go try them. All those simulations and calculations can never tell you a) if you can play it as good in any given encounter and b) if you have fun doing so.
    Last edited by The Kao; 2012-12-07 at 11:20 AM.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shekita View Post
    If you're REALLY good at fire...and I mean really good, you can stay fire.

    If you're as good as the typical WoW player, than switch specs for progression sake imo.
    It doesn't really matter if your really good at fire because it's so much RNG and so little actuall skill.

    Personally I'm running with arcane, haste built. Going to try out the mastery build for next week, however i like the haste build because it's the same stat prio as frost more or less so it's easy to just switch between encounters.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    It doesn't really matter if your really good at fire because it's so much RNG and so little actuall skill.

    Personally I'm running with arcane, haste built. Going to try out the mastery build for next week, however i like the haste build because it's the same stat prio as frost more or less so it's easy to just switch between encounters.
    QFT. It doesn't take a rocket scientist or statistical savant to work out hitting inferno blast after critting with fireball. You might have had an argument for the spiking with the combustion burst window pre 5.1, but both the unintentional buff and severe nerf removed the skill requirement for that as well.

  19. #19
    Seems like a lot of mages are going arcane now too.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    Seems like a lot of mages are going arcane now too.
    I think you should switch, or strongly consider it. I just made the change to arcane and believe it is alot more viable for prog raiding. I had considered changing immediately after the nerf, but wanted to test fire in raid. I went an entire time warp/racial/trinkets/pot without a FB crit. Switched the next day

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