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  1. #1
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    Rogues aren't maybe that bad..

    http://postimage.org/image/5jxbpekdl/full/

    I'm not looking at bashing rogues in any way. But this is just to those QQ - ROGUE IS BAD atm. Maybe they aren't afterall
    I7 - 4930K / 16 GB - 1600MHZ / R9 290 Core 1220 MHZ - Memory 1550 MHZ

  2. #2
    lol 4man premade, and in a random bg probably with a load of bots....and rogue gets 22-0....lol ok.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord shise's Avatar
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    Rogues are perfectly fine. They can burst the hell out of players, just that now not every player can do it, you need to pay attention and know how to play the class.

    They are not OP, they are not underpowered, they are plain normal.

  4. #4
    Well that settles that.

  5. #5
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    I'm not taking any part, there was probably 1 or maybe more bots. But that's not the point. The point is, they're not bad. They're doing just fine. So no reason to complain - OH ROGUE IS BAD:

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 12:21 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Rogues are perfectly fine. They can burst the hell out of players, just that now not every player can do it, you need to pay attention and know how to play the class.

    They are not OP, they are not underpowered, they are plain normal.
    Exactly - Rogues are not OP or UP. They're just fine and will get better with the time. haste etc

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 12:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    lol 4man premade, and in a random bg probably with a load of bots....and rogue gets 22-0....lol ok.
    If that is the case - How come his warrior friend is below him? Aren't warrior like OPOPOP
    I7 - 4930K / 16 GB - 1600MHZ / R9 290 Core 1220 MHZ - Memory 1550 MHZ

  6. #6
    Not directed at Kezotar or anything, but I really, REALLY wish people would get it in their heads that KBs do not indicate viability. All it takes is one clever douchebag to Shadowstep and Ambush to snipe KBs from everyone else who did all the hard work. This really doesn't tell you anything except that he got a bunch of KBs.

    PS - Did you see the other rogue with 0 KBs and 10 deaths? Kind of shits all over using this image as any kind of basis for saying that rogues are good, fine, etc.

  7. #7
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    Fact is, this rogue beat the warrior in DMG and KBs. I understand that not everyone is skilled as him, he was extremely good.
    I7 - 4930K / 16 GB - 1600MHZ / R9 290 Core 1220 MHZ - Memory 1550 MHZ

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Fact is, this rogue beat the warrior in DMG and KBs. I understand that not everyone is skilled as him, he was extremely good.

    There are a number of things you are not taking into account. Was the warrior afk, did the rogue have flasks, pots..etc, what spec are the two classes, how geared were their enemies..etc the list goes on. On my rogue I can get top damage, and a high list of killing blows with minimal deaths, but that does not change the fact I can be two-shotted in arena.

    Random Battlegrounds are not a good area to determine whether or not a class is good, or balanced. Blizzard even says they balance with 3v3 being the main focus. Rogues are not in a good state, but they are not in as bad as a state that players make them out to be. Unfortunately we are far below the "average", and that is not right considering we are a dps class only that cannot do our job.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Fact is, this rogue beat the warrior in DMG and KBs. I understand that not everyone is skilled as him, he was extremely good.
    Or just had much better gear than everyone else in the BG.

  10. #10
    Lol using a random bg scoreboard to say what state a class is in.

    How terrible can you be?

  11. #11
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    I'm not stating anything. I'm just saying - This rogue is performing well. If he was so bad like most people implify he wouldn't be able to do so. Either way , not up to discussion. Just wanted to let you know.
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  12. #12
    High Overlord
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    just from looking into that screenshot i can see at least 5 ally bots..
    Last edited by siafu; 2012-12-10 at 11:57 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    Lol using a random bg scoreboard to say what state a class is in.
    Basically this. Using a random BG's numbers as a means to judge an entire class is like if we used Heroic dungeons to determine the state of PvE. Ridiculous.
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    Rogue - Warlock

  14. #14
    I'm still going to lean on the side of majority in this case, having played my Rogue and Hunter extensively at 90 I can perform well on rogue but it takes so much more effort on my part that the same effort on any other decent class would get me much further. And because of that, when you reach high skill plateaus beyond 2.2k where class problems really arise and skill differences are taken out of the equation I get outperformed. Doesn't mean to say I'm still not better than most average warriors, but two classes of equal skill, rogue is handicapped.
    One cannot simply quit wow his way into Mordor.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome
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    Going to just say this, he's in mostly Malevolent gear. In a random, depending on the composition of his team and his opponent's, he could do extremely well.

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%aaytan/simple

    Not sure if we're allowed to show this, we're not trying to name or shame here, just merely pointing out he's got pretty good equipment. Mod, if it's not allowed, please remove my link.

  16. #16
    So, I normally wouldn't respond to this sort of thread, because usually the OP is just up hoping to stir shit up. But for anyone else reading, I've got some info about this:

    1)- This is an unrated random BG. This means that the skill levels of all the players are across the board, normally in a bell curve distribution.
    2)- This is an unrated random BG. This means you can have a partial premade go against a bunch of pugs, or people who aren't just much better, but have much better gear. As has been pointed out, the fact that it was a 4 man Blackrock group is much more relevant. Also note it sorted by damage done, not, say, healing done. Top ally healer was a hunter. Top horde healer was 7 digits of healing.
    3)- This is an unrated random BG. This means you have different goals. For instance, you might guard a node, or you might peel a healer, or you might play defense and be in every fight, or you might simply go for the most kills. With a guild healer and two other dps, I can run around and play like a rocket propelled swarm of razordicks, but it doesn't mean I can razor or dick my way through a team of equivalent skill and gear- and it actually doesn't even mean that it's the best way to play from a team perspective. For instance, it's possible that the horde rogue would have helped his team win faster by not going for as many alliance. But also note the mine carts field- the rogue was in more fights than the warrior, who was probably doing a different job elsewhere (one that didn't make as much honor, control as many carts, or get as many HKs).
    4)- The OP is wildly biased. Rogues are in a terrible state. You can go look at actual stats to prove this, but honestly? Even the OP's screenshot shows this. The alliance side has two warriors on it. One is OP, who hid his terrible performance in shame. The other did 2 million in damage, the second highest ally total under a DK. The ally side only has one rogue on it, who got 0 KBs and died 10 times (more than the alliance warrior), despite having stealth and vanish- probably, amongst other things, to the enemy rogue with the good score. He also did less damage than the alliance warrior. The horde side has one warrior, who almost out damaged the rogue despite having a lower uptime (based on the other stats). The horde side has two rogues, one of which killed the OP so much he thinks it is a class issue, despite all reason to the contrary. The other did ok damage- 5th place on the horde side, well below the warrior. He also managed to die one of the nine deaths the horde suffered, unlike the warrior, and got a measly 5 killing blows- presumably the blackrock guys really liked getting the KBs, and so they did.

    So the ratings were:
    H Rogue
    H Warrior
    H Rogue
    -----
    A Warrior
    A Warrior
    A Rogue

    Yea, great job there sparky, /golfclap

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderas View Post
    Not sure if we're allowed to show this, we're not trying to name or shame here, just merely pointing out he's got pretty good equipment. Mod, if it's not allowed, please remove my link.
    The analysis is appropriate, and we had the name anyway :P It's not like your posting the name and information of a hacker or someone who was an ass to you. We analyze logs of people who are raiding with rogues all the time; anyone has access to the name, and thus their armory.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-10 at 07:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    I'm not stating anything. I'm just saying - This rogue is performing well. If he was so bad like most people implify he wouldn't be able to do so. Either way , not up to discussion. Just wanted to let you know.
    That IS a statement, and it IS up for discussion.

    I think Verain's 1-3 analysis is probably accurate, can't speak to 4 because I don't see BG charts all that often :P
    Last edited by Kael; 2012-12-11 at 12:53 AM.

  18. #18
    You literally cannot tell anything at all from BG stats. Meaningless.

    Rogues do require a fair bit of skill to play though, they always have. It's probably just more apparent now that their damage is a lot weaker and a lot more classes have the level of control they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Fact is, this rogue beat the warrior in DMG and KBs. I understand that not everyone is skilled as him, he was extremely good.
    No he wasnt. The rogue was just being a chickenshit and hiding, while the warrior would just get nuked. pro tip: you cant do damage when you're dead.

  20. #20

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