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  1. #1
    Dreadlord
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    Barrage vs Glaive Toss

    So,

    Common way to spec is into Glaive Toss, but I've gotten Barrage [Note my ilvl is still low] and it does absurbly good damage, plus, it looks fricken great.
    0 crits on both skills and barrage almost does as much as Glaive Toss in my case, imagine if I'd have a stronger weapon? [It's now a Firebelcher Hand Cannon 0/1]

    Barrage pulls up ahead more at higher ilvl's or what?

    I absolutely love the skill and gonna use it either way though.

  2. #2
    For cast time per damage, Barrage is worse. You will spend more time casting Barrage and end up doing less total damage if any single one of your glaive tosses crits.

    I agree that Barrage is awesome, mechanically, though. I wish it was stronger. The only PvE use I've really found for it is breaking Maddening Shout when our monk tank isn't able to do it for whatever reason.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    For cast time per damage, Barrage is worse. You will spend more time casting Barrage and end up doing less total damage if any single one of your glaive tosses crits.

    I agree that Barrage is awesome, mechanically, though. I wish it was stronger. The only PvE use I've really found for it is breaking Maddening Shout when our monk tank isn't able to do it for whatever reason.
    For cast time per damage, Barrage is worse.
    I can understand it, but it gives me much more satisfaction.
    It's the only skill coming close to our old skill we all still mourn; Volley.

    I agree that Barrage is awesome, mechanically, though. I wish it was stronger.
    Well, it grows stronger and stronger with weapon damage, so I reckon a good Bow will do the trick? :P

    Also, would you agree Powershot needs a MUCH shorter CD and maybe deal a little less damage?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Insarius View Post
    It's the only skill coming close to our old skill we all still mourn; Volley.
    Barrage is indeed awesome and I'd love for it to do more damage, but don't say anything about Volley. Every patch since patch 4.0.1 I've danced a merry jig on Volley's grave and I plan on doing that for as long as I play World of Warcraft. Good frikkin' riddance.
    Roll the bones!

  5. #5
    it's not that bad damagewise actually. it has the advantage of doing 16 hits in 3sec, giving it a hich chance to procc your trinkets/scope, which is cool for BW.
    during a few tests on the dummy, I could hardly see a difference dps wise. both are similary, GT maybe slightly better.
    but apart from having an awesome animation, its also often better for AoE situations, because you normally manage to attack more mobs with it, because it sprays in front of you rather than just doing dmg on a thin line.

  6. #6
    GT is better for single target, but it's not at all better for AOE. Barrage is a very awesome ability indeed.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphorism View Post
    GT is better for single target, but it's not at all better for AOE. Barrage is a very awesome ability indeed.
    just to make a point clear: all tier 6 talents do 100% dmg to maintarget, and 50% dmg to secondary targets. so if there's an ability that does most singeltarget damage, it also does most AoE damage.
    the reason why Barrage is concidered better, because its got a higher chance to hit mobs, because it shoots in a cone in front of you, not just a line

  8. #8
    Yeah Glaive Toss is just better. This is not only for the damage, but for the relatively seamless integration into what is at the moment a very complicated priority system for hunters. The last thing we need is to worry about is channeling/cast times in relation to our signature shots on top of the 14 or so buttons we have to press. However, Barrage scales better with both weapon damage and haste, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it overtake Glaive Toss later in the expansion, or if MM ever comes out on top with a haste build. You will notice the channeling duration becomes less with haste, causing it to take a lesser amount of time to cast the more haste you have. This will give it hard plateaus at 2 seconds and and 1 second channeling time. The 2 second one at the very least will be realistically attainable with an MM haste build, if scaling/buffs ever make that the way to go. Otherise, it's Glaive Toss for single target, Barrage for AoE, Power Shot for pissing off your raid.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Barrage is indeed awesome and I'd love for it to do more damage, but don't say anything about Volley. Every patch since patch 4.0.1 I've danced a merry jig on Volley's grave and I plan on doing that for as long as I play World of Warcraft. Good frikkin' riddance.
    Why? D:
    Why didn't you like Volley? D:

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    just to make a point clear: all tier 6 talents do 100% dmg to maintarget, and 50% dmg to secondary targets. so if there's an ability that does most singeltarget damage, it also does most AoE damage.
    the reason why Barrage is concidered better, because its got a higher chance to hit mobs, because it shoots in a cone in front of you, not just a line
    not exactly... barrage can hit far more targets then GT can, and TBH you lost so little time using barrage that overall its not noticable. especialy if you are able to use most of them under focus fire or rapid fire. Barrage will also scale better with weapon damage and GT with attack power. So having a heroic upgrades gun right now barrage can out perform GT, its truely one of the abilities that is a preference ability. However there are just many times when you use it near a CCed target and have to worry about breaking CC, like in heroic will, i would LOVE to use barrage but its too dangerous when it comes to breaking a CC with my guilds strat.

  11. #11
    The problem with the abilities is that they work single target. If blizzard changed them so they were only worth hitting during AoE, then you would choose you talent based on what does the most AoE damage in that situation.

    If a big group if adds spawn every 30 seconds the it would be worth taking barrage.
    If adds spawn continuously then glaive toss would be in the winner.

    Choices like this are important for the talent system to work. Right now there aren't any choices - Glaive Toss is king, take it. (single target)

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    not exactly... barrage can hit far more targets then GT can
    isn't that exactly that what I said in the second sentance?
    yes, if it is impossible to face a direction where there are no CC'd mobs, thus making it impossible to use Barrage, then it's useless obviously.
    but if you can stand near to the mob, you can quickly adjust your viewing direction to not hit any other mobs, unless the whole scene is plastered with CC'd mobs...

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Caribald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Barrage is indeed awesome and I'd love for it to do more damage, but don't say anything about Volley. Every patch since patch 4.0.1 I've danced a merry jig on Volley's grave and I plan on doing that for as long as I play World of Warcraft. Good frikkin' riddance.
    I wish we had it temporarily for Lei Shi though ...
    My old solo stuff can be seen on Twitch and Youtube

  14. #14
    Generally Glaive Toss is superior to Barrage. On single target it does roughly by 50% more damage. However, the more adds there are and the better you are at useing its main feature - shooting even beyond your target and in cone - the better Barrage gets comparatively to Glaive toss. Barrage wins on Mel´jarak, Will of Emperor, possibly even on heroic Feng, even though you will most likely only have 3 waves of adds (or four), is very good if you are assigned to go to Spirit world in Garajal. You can hit all the spark on Elegon with it, although only two times per each Draw Power phase so I would stick with GT here. Zor'lok and Ta'yak is GT all the way. On Garalon id go with Barrage, same as Mel'jarak, Un'sok and Shek'zeer. And in Terrace you may want Barrage for Tsulong - it might be useful in Day phase. For the rest of bosses you want to go with GT.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 02:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    just to make a point clear: all tier 6 talents do 100% dmg to maintarget, and 50% dmg to secondary targets. so if there's an ability that does most singeltarget damage, it also does most AoE damage.
    the reason why Barrage is concidered better, because its got a higher chance to hit mobs, because it shoots in a cone in front of you, not just a line
    Your point is wrong. The reason why Barrage is better for AoE is, that Glaive Toss only does only 25% dmg to secondary targets (and not 50% like Barrage or Powershot)
    There is one more reason you didnt mention and it is that it also hits mobs beyond your target, unlike GT.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 02:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    Choices like this are important for the talent system to work. Right now there aren't any choices - Glaive Toss is king, take it. (single target)
    Wrong. Both GT are valid choices, depending on figts. Becouse we dont only have single target fights, that is why you should alternate between GT amnd Barrage. I wish Powershot was also a valid choice but I guess it is fine if we actually have to choose talents on fight by fight basis

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    Your point is wrong. The reason why Barrage is better for AoE is, that Glaive Toss only does only 25% dmg to secondary targets (and not 50% like Barrage or Powershot)
    sorry, your point is wrong. if you would have a closer look at what happens when you fire GT, you would observe this:
    your glave toss ability hits the main target twice for 400% of the damage. ie 800%.
    the targets between you and target get hit twice for 100% of the damage on the way to the boss,
    and again twice for 100% of the damage on the way back. => 400%.
    (I always say twice, because each of the two glaives hit individually)
    all abilites do full damage to the main target, and half to those secondary targets. everything else wouldn't make sense, as they want to keep them in line with eachother.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    Your point is wrong. The reason why Barrage is better for AoE is, that Glaive Toss only does only 25% dmg to secondary targets (and not 50% like Barrage or Powershot)
    Glaive Toss also has a 15 second cooldown and Barrage has a 30 second cooldown. 2 uses of GT = same damage as 1 Barrage single target. But Barrage has a cast time so you lose GCDs.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    sorry, your point is wrong. if you would have a closer look at what happens when you fire GT, you would observe this:
    your glave toss ability hits the main target twice for 400% of the damage. ie 800%.
    the targets between you and target get hit twice for 100% of the damage on the way to the boss,
    and again twice for 100% of the damage on the way back. => 400%.
    (I always say twice, because each of the two glaives hit individually)
    all abilites do full damage to the main target, and half to those secondary targets. everything else wouldn't make sense, as they want to keep them in line with eachother.
    I went through logs and you are closer to true. Primary target is always hit twice, while secondary targets CAN BE up to four times

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepfriedegg View Post
    I went through logs and you are closer to true. Primary target is always hit twice, while secondary targets CAN BE up to four times
    I can imagine though that when you have secondary targets that are really near to the primary target, that they don't get hit on the way to the primary and on the way back.
    this is maybe a source of error why barrage is better for AoE (i.e. because GT may be buggy when targets clumped up)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Glaive Toss also has a 15 second cooldown and Barrage has a 30 second cooldown. 2 uses of GT = same damage as 1 Barrage single target. But Barrage has a cast time so you lose GCDs.
    2 uses of GT > 1 Barrage single target (in this tier). Barrage only gets better with hitting targets that cannot be hit with Glaive Toss. And also with better weapon.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 02:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    I can imagine though that when you have secondary targets that are really near to the primary target, that they don't get hit on the way to the primary and on the way back.
    this is maybe a source of error why barrage is better for AoE (i.e. because GT may be buggy when targets clumped up)
    GT unfortunately would also not strike secondary target if it is right next to your target, but not between you and the target. You cannot have the group of adds always aligned so that your GT hits each mob. That is why I generally prefer Barrage on multiple target fights.
    Last edited by Deepfriedegg; 2012-12-11 at 01:37 PM.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Barrage should win out in later tiers when we can get more haste, which makes Barrage Cast time shorter and we lose out on less GCDs. Also if you have, say Lei Shi Heroic weapon and your other gear is only a few pieces heroic, Barrage SHOULD win since it scales with weapon damage.

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