The Glory of the Raider Drakes being on BMAH No Longer Justifies the Achieve Nerf

[Gondlem]

I can't earn a mount anymore and I'm so ungrateful that I refuse to earn the gold to buy it, I deserve this purely cosmetic item that in no way impacts my gameplay because I say I do. I'm also painfully aware that I was not good enough to get it the first time so I'll divert attention away from this by using the Special Snowflake "argument" (read: fallacy) and throw that in your face until you give me what I want.

Jesus. Why do people care about getting mounts they couldn't earn legitimately? I couldn't get these mounts, I accept that, I think it's really awesome others did and get to have something special to show for it.

What a great post.

The "special snowflake" stuff really is absurd. That's exactly what an MMO is supposed to be: enforced rarity for in-game items built around completing in-game challenges. Like you kill a difficult raid boss, you get good gear that others don't have and your character feels "special" as a reward for your effort. If you don't want that in your game you're in the wrong genre.

[Xorn]

Personally, I don't understand why they ever took those drakes away in the first place. They haven't taken away any other tier's achievement drakes, so why take away this one?

[Deleted]

I recall that their original intention was to make the meta mounts akin to PvP Gladiator mounts (i.e. only a small % of the raiding population would achieve it). Ulduar rolled around and they decided to change the model so that they would be accessible after the next raid tier came out.

Could have been because they introduced Heroic raids with that patch so felt it would limit the amount of people getting them anyway (unlikely), or wanted the Glory mounts to be available to everyone and have the Mims Heads, Invincibles etc be the "trophy mount" of the tier to have. As Naxx had neither it's hard to tell really

[Dubalicious]

Personally, I don't understand why they ever took those drakes away in the first place. They haven't taken away any other tier's achievement drakes, so why take away this one?

Interesting point. However, didn't they announce they would be removed WELL in advance of actually removing them?

I'm of the opinion that we should encourage rare/epic/awesome things in this game - even if I can't have them =)

[Valsh]

They specifically announced the removal of the drakes from that meta weeks before the Ulduar patch hit, they're not going to be reinstated 2 expansions later just because of the BMAH.

[Ryme]

Why do you think folks weren't good enough to complete it when Naxx from Wrath was considered by many to be the easiest raiding experience in all of wow if it was being pugged out of the gate? My argument was that I wasn't even playing at the time. I have no problems with things being kept out of the game if they were removed for sensible reasons, I don't clamor for Atiesh, I don't whine about Scarab Lord (because it's pretty clearly once per server that was around during Vanilla) and even the ZG mounts are fine because they were from a different, past instance of the ZG we have now, and those have their own mounts similar to the old ones.

If they had kept removing meta achievement mounts like they said they were going to do, this would be a non-issue because they'd have kept the mounts for the best of the best, that would've been their purpose. But they decided to change that idea and keep the mounts for the best of the best while they're current, and as time goes on, all of the people who've been salivating for those mounts slowly get a chance to get it.

Again, you're assuming I'm a bad player when my guild was server first t11 Heroic for every boss, a tier far more difficult than t7 was. I simply wasn't playing back then. As I said, if they'd gone back and kept their original model for Glory meta mounts, I wouldn't care. But going back on it and executing the current model for it (the best players get them now to show the more casual folks what they might be able to look forward to) makes everyone ask the question, why keep the original Glory mounts out of the meta? "Well, we said those mounts would never be available again, and we don't want to harm the players who worked very hard to get theirs by ruining the value and prestige those mounts bring."

Well that argument flies out the window immediately with them being available on the Black Market Auction House. Guess what? It's not hard to earn gold, just time-consuming, something most sane folks honestly don't care about, especially if they're already blowing a lot of time raiding. Money earns many things in WoW, some expensive-ass mounts from Engineering/JC, some mounts and pets that have very low drop chances, the token TCG mounts that sometimes pop up on the Auction House, etc.

No where in there should be anything that's taken out of the game for a reason, an obsolete reason, mind you, but a reason nonetheless. To be honest, I'm a strongly against the original Naxx tier gear being in there, even if it was easier to farm for in TBC. Because it's a relic of the past, like Corrupted Ashbringer, like the Black Battle Tank. You have two sets of lookalike gear available as t7 gear, and even a couple other options available from dungeon and pvp sets that bear a resemblance to original Naxx gear.

I'm getting off base here, but the point I'm trying to make is I could offer my little brother 20 bucks to get me at gold cap over a weekend. $50 if he'll get it for me on multiple toons over 20 days. This is not money that's difficult to earn. I'm not saying that making gold isn't time-consuming, because it is, but it's time you could spend with your brain turned off as you make your rounds gathering enough herbs/ore to fill a thousand slots of bag space and spinning it towards other ventures with crafting professions. Making gold is time consuming, but time-consuming=/=hard, especially with Mists throwing so many new options for gold-making towards you. This in no way translates to the effort and coordination of raiding. If they're going to make an exception for the super-rich as gold sinks, then already you're opening the floodgates by offering what was previously deemed unobtainable anymore.

Money shouldn't buy everything in WoW, and if they're going to go back on keeping the drakes exclusive for the folks who did the content (a model that lasted all of one tier) why in god's name would they not go back on them being rewarded by achievements. The BMAH should be an alternative to getting things that are already there for folks that aren't as lucky/skilled as the folks who got A'lar, Invincible, or the Brawlers' Guild pass, ALL things that are still available for folks willing to put in the time to farm for themselves. Put the drakes back in the damn metas if you're going to put them back into the game at all.

Nice post, well worded and laid out.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't change the fact that you were, for whatever reason, not able to obtain the mount legitimately. Let it go, move on. There are literally hundreds of mounts out there, many of which share the exact same model as the one you're after. You don't need this mount, it won't change how you play the game, let people keep their sense of prestige if they have it.

[kennyisnotdead]

I have always liked the idea of a challenge mode for every raid zone to earn mounts and exclusive items.

[ihatepeople]

These/those mounts show up on the BMAH and instantly go for gold cap. Also, they are not nearly up enough to diminish the e-peen of those who got them when they were still current. You are over exaggerating greatly.

[Slummish]

I agree with the sentiment, but not your logic. Personally, I believe all sorts of things should be permanently retired (titles, pets, mounts, achievements, etc.). If you weren't around for the original conquest, you don't deserve the credit years later. Now, with that being said, Blizzard has made it extremely clear that they don't care about rewarding veterans by allowing them special snowflake perks. Blizzard thinks it's bad business to allow players to possess unique identifiers. Fine. But, if that's the case, then Blizzard needs to reactivate ALL retired items/title. It's just like those of us that had the Mountain Dew robot pet. Now you can buy it in the toy shop. Fine. Then I want access to the Chinese/Korean pets and Naxx protos. Fair is fair.

[Theendgamelv3]

Nice post, well worded and laid out.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't change the fact that you were, for whatever reason, not able to obtain the mount legitimately. Let it go, move on. There are literally hundreds of mounts out there, many of which share the exact same model as the one you're after. You don't need this mount, it won't change how you play the game, let people keep their sense of prestige if they have it.

You can say almost the same exact thing about the people who would complain about the mounts being on BMAH. They have other ways to show it and not only that, they have friends and their own memories of when they did it. If those people really cared about their prestige, all they have to do is pop their title and drake. Does it being on the BMAH ruin the value of it, yea it does, but it doesn't do it THAT much if the mount is gonna be rarely sold on it. I am not gonna go "Oh he has that mount, he must have bought it." I just go "oh neat" and move on. Also, I'll put it this way, if you can "buy" a run to get a mount, there isn't prestige in that either. So in the end, you don't know how many people actually got the mount without paying for some guild to carry them. Once you get to that point in the raid tier, prestige IMO is already lost, the value of the mount, title, etc. is reduced.

[Deleted]

These mounts shouldn't be on the BMAH. Reaching the gold cap does indeed take skill and effort, but not the same skill and effort needed to earn the mounts properly. Why aren't there unique mounts only available on the BMAH? That would be a better reflection of the skills needed to obtain it, and they'd be much rarer than the Naxx ones.

[lockedout]

Who cares? You couldn't get it with skill and now you can't get it with gold. Maybe then you just don't deserve it? Everyone wants a trophy for just showing up. IMO all mount should be removed once the next expac or even tier comes out.

[yukikochan]

I think its interesting that they added them into the bmah a bit but it still makes them hard to get

[PBitt]

I don't think they should be put on on BMAH, and I don't even own one. I guess it's not a huge deal as there isn't exactly going to be a million of them on each servers AH, and I suppose it would allow people that missed either by just one achievement, like immortal, to finally obtain one. Don't exactly understand why the rusted is being added, seeing as you can easily get it, and I would think Blizz would rather encourage people that don't already have the mount to go back and see Ulduar and get it that way instead.

[Kissme]

look the amount of people with enough gold to buy these mounts outside of backwater servers are around the same amount of people who are hardcore realm first raiders

those people cause problems for the games economy so giving them something to get rid of all their disposable income is good.

im sorry you want some people to be special snowflakes but the majority of those people have already left the game and they dont cause problems for the economy people with big wallets do. blizzard has literally nothing to lose by putting those mounts on the bmah but plenty of problems down the road if these people keep walking arund with that much gold all the time

This is so true that it's sad - most of the people that earned those mounts have quit playing the game. I'm one of them. Of my plagued proto group only 3 still play the game and they've gone completely casual and will leave as soon as they can find another winter time sink. As much as I think putting access to these mounts and similar vanity items back into the game is a bad idea, at this point most of the people that earned them are gone anyway. I wonder when titles will start being available on BMAH or in a cash shop (Death's Demise title, Invincible, and Atiesh transmog skin - that'll be $60).

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 06:33 PM ----------

In before Aquamarine Qiraji Battle-Tank shows up on the BMAH and the shitstorm that follows.

Seriously, "limited availability, never to be gotten again!" really isn't something you can just go back on.

They already have. Black and Plagued Protos were removed to maintain their rarity, now they are accessible again. The difficulty of obtaining them is secondary.

[Boogieknight]

Why do the bolded items get special treatment over the mounts?

The mechanics to obtain all of those items (Corrupted Ashbringer, Atiesh, legacy titles, and the Black Qiraji Battle tank) no longer exist in the game. There's no way to obtain those items via any monetary or time-dependent methods at the current time. Tier 3 has been on the BMAH a lot, so there's a possibility they may be on there at some later time. As for the protodrakes, the meta-achievement and all mechanics to obtain it in the original method still exist. Rather than reinstating an achievement reward for something that can still be completed they sold it on the BMAH as a gold-sink. If removing the mount from the meta was to invoke prestige/rarity then subsequently follow up with never removing any other meta achievement mount then they failed. I didn't play when Naxx was current content, so I don't have the drakes. I'd like to have them, but it's not critical. I just find it hypocritical to remove access to something for rarity's sake then sell it later in an effort to bleed money from the economy.

All I'm curious about is the lack of consistency between the PvE and PvP rewards. PvP rewards generally remain extremely prestigious while the PvE rewards are eventually available to all. It comes off as a quite weird design.

They went over this a lot when account-wide titles/mounts went into effect. A PvP gladiator title/mount was earned on a specific character/spec and had you have played a different character/spec you might not have gotten the title/mount and the exclusivity is limited to that design. Your Retribution Paladin may never have been able to acquire season 7, 8, etc. rewards so they remain limited to the toons you have that managed to acquire them. However, PvE rewards can be earned by anyone and everyone at any time and really only maintain prestige while the content is current (and to some unnerfed).

[Raugnaut]

Being lvl 80 and having to have ilvl 226 or less gear would probably make it more acceptable for raiders. I personally do NOT like the way blizz removes mounts like that.

Old unarmored epic mounts. I was a mere 100g away from having a Teal or Green kodo, which would be awesome now. However, they were removed.

Brewfest Ram, unarmored version. 9 tickets or so away from it. Got the Swift Brewfest ram from Coren, ditched the quest, regret it now.

[Dubalicious]

BMAH is a gold sink, and probably the best/most successful one Blizzard has ever implemented. It makes perfect sense to list highly sought after/epic items as it results in a HUGE gold sink and adds a (likely) insignificant amount of these "rare" items (ie. they're still rare, and still epic)

[Koji2k11]

good gold sink imo

[Aceshigh]

All I'm curious about is the lack of consistency between the PvE and PvP rewards. PvP rewards generally remain extremely prestigious while the PvE rewards are eventually available to all. It comes off as a quite weird design.

This, very much.