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  1. #41
    You are definitely nuts.

    Having an interesting and challenging rotation is one thing, but having a rotation that is so over-bloated with buttons that some hunters simply don't have enough reasonable keybinds for it (along with their utility) is a completely different ball-game.

    I think Survival's rotation would be easier if Murder of Crows had no focus cost (as opposed to a laughable 60) or if they got rid of either Glaive Toss or Dire Beast. I can sort of live with Dire Beast, but 15 second Glaive Toss being in EVERY hunter rotation so frequently is stupid, and would be stupid for any class.

    It's dumb when I can't even play a unique spec because every 15 seconds I'm either using Glaive Toss or Dire Beast, like the other two hunter specs. No other class has to deal with talents that come up in their central rotation that frequently. I'm all for a challenging rotation, but that's too much and not fun.
    Last edited by Penguintamer; 2012-12-15 at 09:06 PM.

  2. #42
    The problem isn't the huge ammount of buttons.
    It's the huge ammount of buttons and doing 20% less DPS than the guy that spams 3 keys.

  3. #43
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    Yeah, I think hunters are probably the only class which got buttons to press at the 60, 75, AND 90 tiers. Plus a CC on the 30 tier.

  4. #44
    Why would you even want to play a faceroll spec though? Is all you want out of the game to get the highest on the meters while pressing the least buttons possible?

    Personally, that was one of the things I disliked about hunters last tier/expansion. Survival was essentially a 4-5 button rotation with 1 cooldown. What could you really do to improve or pull yourself past other hunters in PvE? The only things that mattered were that you 1) Used RF/CoTW at the right time 2) got ES off cooldown and 3) didn't mess up BA. Any hunter that could do that pulled around the same DPS.

    Now that we actually have abilities to break that monotony, there's at least something to do. There's active decision making on which talents to take, which abilities to use at what times, and how to manage your focus. I really think that people complaining about MoC, for example, just aren't used to putting any thought into focus management. It's really not hard, it just requires you to actually check a few seconds before it comes off cooldown and pool focus once every two minutes.

  5. #45
    3 button gameplay was terrible, I agree that the current hunter model is much better.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Penguintamer View Post
    You are definitely nuts.
    Lol, perhaps I am. But I'm just addicted to my hunter atm - I've never enjoyed it more.

  7. #47
    Herald of the Titans Poppincaps's Avatar
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    BM is fine for most of the fight, but the opener gives me a fucking headache. I probably just need more practice with it, but it can get confusing on fights like Garalon when I'm having the kite the pheromones first.

  8. #48
    Just lol at folks who about PvP in MMO, they're tons of better PvP games out there. To the point, the more buttons a class have = the better. Of course when it's done with thought.

  9. #49
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    It is a huge turn off for me, especially the way BM turned out in mop. After playing a lock for years I came to the conclusion that the number of binds=/fun. It is all about making quick decisions and keeping up the dps on heavy movement, switching targets, multidotting and aoe. That is what is fun and that is where the the good player differs from the baddie. Huge number of keybinds is for the faceroll masochists, skillful play is for the smart people.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Huge number of keybinds is for the faceroll masochists, skillful play is for the smart people.
    Ding ding! You win the worthless post of the thread award.

    If you actually understood what faceroll meant, you'd know that its the specs that do well with few buttons and little skill. There is a high degree of skill in playing BM well now, primarily because of the huge number of cooldowns and spells it has, and the opener - as has been established elsewhere and in this thread - is quite complicated and not something you can 'faceroll'.

    Playing a spec like Arcane in Cata, or Ret in Wrath or even BM in BC - where you outperformed everyone with 2-3 buttons - that is not 'skillful play' that requires 'smart people'. That's faceroll. So please, before you contribute (using that word lightly) to a topic in the future, know what the bloody hell you're talking about.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Ding ding! You win the worthless post of the thread award.

    If you actually understood what faceroll meant, you'd know that its the specs that do well with few buttons and little skill. There is a high degree of skill in playing BM well now, primarily because of the huge number of cooldowns and spells it has, and the opener - as has been established elsewhere and in this thread - is quite complicated and not something you can 'faceroll'.

    Playing a spec like Arcane in Cata, or Ret in Wrath or even BM in BC - where you outperformed everyone with 2-3 buttons - that is not 'skillful play' that requires 'smart people'. That's faceroll. So please, before you contribute (using that word lightly) to a topic in the future, know what the bloody hell you're talking about.
    the problem is not the complexity of the class, the problem is that hunters are 10-30k behind mages in roughly the same gear with mages doing 1/3 of the "work" to of that damage.

  12. #52
    With so many buttons, it reduces the impact of any individual ability since in a balancing perspective there is somewhat equal 'total amount of damage done' per class, and so the more abilities you have to spread this damage across, the smaller the differences between the big abilities and the small ones. This actually REDUCES the skill cap since there is less penalty for sub-optimum choices.

    I think this is often overlooked in the "moar buttons means harder" argument.

  13. #53
    Stood in the Fire Modify's Avatar
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    I don't find it to be that many buttons, i could easily manage with 7-8 more buttons. Alot of them are cooldown based anyways so you onlyhave to push them once in a while. Once you get the hang of the rotations they get easier to get in. Like you get to direbeast right before bw and another halfway through bw cd as an example

  14. #54
    Pandaren Monk Serpent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguintamer View Post
    You are definitely nuts.

    Having an interesting and challenging rotation is one thing, but having a rotation that is so over-bloated with buttons that some hunters simply don't have enough reasonable keybinds for it (along with their utility) is a completely different ball-game.

    I think Survival's rotation would be easier if Murder of Crows had no focus cost (as opposed to a laughable 60) or if they got rid of either Glaive Toss or Dire Beast. I can sort of live with Dire Beast, but 15 second Glaive Toss being in EVERY hunter rotation so frequently is stupid, and would be stupid for any class.

    It's dumb when I can't even play a unique spec because every 15 seconds I'm either using Glaive Toss or Dire Beast, like the other two hunter specs. No other class has to deal with talents that come up in their central rotation that frequently. I'm all for a challenging rotation, but that's too much and not fun.
    Elemental Blast says hi.
    Also, loving the amount of buttons. I loved Destruction in Cataclysm as well, for this exact reason. Hoping they don't change it.
    Last edited by Serpent; 2012-12-17 at 01:42 PM.

  15. #55
    I enjoy the amount of buttons we have. However it does seem to be a bit much sometimes. I find it hard to come up with a UI though to fit all my buttons on the screen how I want.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBrems View Post
    Elemental Blast says hi.
    Also, loving the amount of buttons. I loved Destruction in Cataclysm as well, for this exact reason. Hoping they don't change it.
    Mage's bomb tier and level 90 tier also say hi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winstonwolfe View Post
    In other words, he's worried about how sharp your bayonet is when you are firing RPG's.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandwrong View Post
    Mage's bomb tier and level 90 tier also say hi.
    yeah that makes it so mages hit what 6 buttons at most??? we had a dozen before they added more.

  18. #58
    Herald of the Titans Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandwrong View Post
    Mage's bomb tier and level 90 tier also say hi.
    Mages have Scorch, Arcane Blast, Arcane Missiles, Arcane Barrage, and Nether Tempest or w/e. Hunters have Kill Command, Murder of Crows, Dire Beast, Glaive Toss, Cobra Shot, and a pet to manage. PLUS the large amount of cooldowns we have. Whereas Mages have like 1 major CD and 2 minor ones iirc. Plus, just look at the hunter opening rotation. You have to memorize 20 GCDs at the beginning of a fight everytime.

    I'm not saying mage is super easy, but anyone who says mage is harder than playing a hunter is pretty oblivious.

  19. #59
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Personally, this is terrible class design.

    A class shouldn't need to press a thousand buttons to be as competitive as another, but it should be totally unique in how it is competitive. I've not played a hunter in years, but a few friends of mine constantly complain about how much their hand hurts after a raid.

    Blizzard needs to strip back a lot of skills, merge a lot of capability and make every class unique again. Classes don't need to have an identical amount of skills, but Hunters are just insane at the moment.

  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans Poppincaps's Avatar
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    I was fine with the BM rotation until they nerfed Lynx Rush and made Murder of Crows better... Murder of Crows feels incredibly clunky and I feel like it interrupts the flow of the rotation. I'm tempted to switch back to Lynx Rush or maybe Blink Strike simply because I hate MoC.

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