Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Don't see Jaina as doing thing's out of character if any I see Varian trying to talk some sense into Jaine as out of character

  2. #22
    Blademaster Fenth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Den-liner
    Posts
    30
    He doesn't consider other sources of information as relevant for some reason.
    Person B can eat a plate full of gravy and be the happiest champ he can be.
    Maybe one day I won't need to buy a book to enjoy the lore of a game I pay monthly for. >.>
    I know we are getting that now with the quests from the new dailies that seems to come whenever they feel like. Don't get me wrong I have the Warcraft archive somewhere around here but it just feels like there are some of us that do love the lore maybe and maybe can't find/buy the books and get left out when they put these things in game. Sorta like how some people reacted to the black jaw tattoo Garrosh has.
    I'll do something witty and clever in this box one day...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    Theramore made no offensive moves during the war. Most of the Alliance forces in the Barrens were Dwarves from Bael Modan. Reinforcements from Stormwind landed in the port in Theramore on one noted occasion after The horde attacked(prior to the attack from the books that destroyed it) Northwatch.

    It doesn't matter if Theramore itself made no offensive, you cannot support one side without fearing any kind of attack on the other, the moment you help someone within a War you are a valid target for an attack.


    Northwatch forces were already moving through the Barrens before the Cataclysm, that's how they took Honors Stand.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Kilrok_Gorehammer

    Northwatch wasn't destroyed until Tides of War, before that it was merely damaged by the Rageroar Clan.

    Also, the Humans from Fort Triumph are pretty much Stormwind forces and got there by the Highroad.


    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    The Horde attacked Theramore's lands during their war with Bael Modan because they assumed the Humans would help the Dwarves, Theramore defended it's lands and gave no chase when the Orcs lost and retreated.
    When did this happen?

    Bael Modan is under attack by a single TAUREN Clan, Stonespire Clan and that has been the case since Classic.

    Also, Dustwallow Marsh is the Home of the Stonemaul Clan, they lived there before Jaina founded Theramore.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  4. #24
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    10,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    I think she has valid emotional reasons for doing what she's doing, but I still think she's snapped and lost it. What she did here completely undermined whatever it was Varian was trying to attempt.
    He was working on convincing the blood elves to defect. From the sounds of it, Lor'themar's still giving his offer some consideration; it will end up being a decision of whether or not Jaina's behavior or Garrosh's will leave a more sour taste in his mouth in the long run. Jaina's actions are at least moderately justifiable in that the Horde flagrantly disregarded Dalaran's neutrality in the war, whereas Garrosh's active oppression of his allies has no such justification.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  5. #25
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    4,256
    It really looks like Blizzard can only write two kinds of women - psychos and damsels. It used to be better. In Warcraft 3 female characters were stronger, more interesting.
    Now Tyrande went full damsel, Jaina went damsel in Wrath, and turned psycho in MoP. Sylvanas is full psycho. How about an actually strong and assertive female leader without violent streaks or being armdec for a dominant male?
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  6. #26
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    4,469
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    How about an actually strong and assertive female leader without violent streaks or being armdec for a dominant male?
    They tried that.
    People hated Aggra.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  7. #27
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    10,139
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    It really looks like Blizzard can only write two kinds of women - psychos and damsels. It used to be better. In Warcraft 3 female characters were stronger, more interesting.
    Now Tyrande went full damsel, Jaina went damsel in Wrath, and turned psycho in MoP. Sylvanas is full psycho. How about an actually strong and assertive female leader without violent streaks or being armdec for a dominant male?
    We've still got Shandris, who was more badass than Tyrande in Tyrande's own leader story, Liadrin, who's been put on a bus, Gorgonna, who's been put on a bus, Joanna Blueheart, who's been put on a bus, Moira, who's less psychotic and more emotionally damaged, Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth, who has all of one cutscene's worth of story relevance, and I think her name's Tarindrella, from the night elf starter zone. Guess what? Put on a bus.

    Blizz has a handful of decently-written females; the problem is they're either one-off questline NPCs or they get put on a bus to make way for the nutjobs, the ineffective damsels, the incompetent pollys, and the big, strong men they all cling to like it's the cover of a Conan novel.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-11 at 10:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    They tried that.
    People hated Aggra.
    People hated Aggra because her entire characterization revolved around her man. She didn't stand on her own two feet--literally every moment of story relevance she had revolved around her relationship with Thrall.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  8. #28
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    4,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    People hated Aggra because her entire characterization revolved around her man. She didn't stand on her own two feet--literally every moment of story relevance she had revolved around her relationship with Thrall.
    THAT was the reason? Hahaha.
    I thought it was the nasty-ass voice her VA was forced to use.

    Still, she is an assertive, dominant female. Sure, she's part of Thrall's story, but it's obvious who wears the pants around the Orc Burrow.

    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  9. #29
    Jaina should be out for blood after years of trying to broker peace with the horde and getting only misery for it (She helped kill her father in order to keep the peace FFS), and as final insult to multiple injury the city she lives in (And most if not all the people she loves) gets nuked by -You guessed it- the same horde she tried frantically to keep peace with!

    Enough is enough, by now the horde needs to get a damn good thrashing, and the Sunreavers (Supposedly members of the Kirin tor and as such neutral in the conflict, never mind what part they had in the Theramore bombing) help the horde funnel people and materials around through neutral Dalaran, so the sunreavers made their choice: horde it is, and if they're so puppy-dog eager to be friends with the horde, they're going to be Jaina's (And the alliance's) enemy, and she'll treat them accordingly (Bear in mind there's an all-out war on, even the alliance leaders figured that out by now), which means jail if you go quietly or death if you think you're a tough guy, which is still better than what the horde would do, BTW

  10. #30
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Canadia
    Posts
    4,256
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    They tried that.
    People hated Aggra.
    They didn't do a good job. Aggra was DEFINED by her relationship with Thrall. She is hardly even a character of her own, she is more like a part of Thrall's character. Kinda like Doomhammer.
    Last edited by namelessone; 2012-12-11 at 03:33 PM.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  11. #31
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    10,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    THAT was the reason? Hahaha.
    I thought it was the nasty-ass voice her VA was forced to use.
    I didn't mind her VA. Just the lines she constantly spouted where literally everything she said was about Thrall, either talking about how awesome he is or how she can't wait to get a taste of his Durotar Sausage.

    Still, she is an assertive, dominant female. Sure, she's part of Thrall's story, but it's obvious who wears the pants around the Orc Burrow.
    Ostensibly, but she's also a good look at a major problem with writing females in Warcraft: the only dominant, assertive females who are of story relevance are either emotionally broken, suffering a mental breakdown, psychotic, weak damsels clinging to a man's arm (where their assertive nature is an informed attribute), or everything they are revolves around the male character they've been tied to.
    Last edited by Callei; 2012-12-11 at 03:43 PM.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  12. #32
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The apotheosis of all Deserts
    Posts
    4,992
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    They didn't do a good job. Aggra was DEFINED by her relationship with Thrall. She is hardly even a character of her own, she is more like a part of Thrall's character.
    I think it's more that Thrall was defined by his relationship with Aggra. She is the embodiment of what He wants in life - a strong, neutral character to balance his desire to interfere out.

    This does go back to reading the books somewhat, although back when she was introduced, you basically got everything that makes her awesome in the few lines between Thrall and herself in Nagrand.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  13. #33
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    5,178
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    Yes. :P It was a poetic exaggeration on my part.
    Well actually it was aimed more at the OP's post .


    Anyway I think the current issue is people are confusing her desire to put her foot down after being betrayed by the very people she had protected for so long (twice I might add) with that of a vengeful person who hates the Horde.
    One post on the other Jaina thread even compared her Garrosh - I mean seriously!?

    Either way I think they added a little to her character without taking away the good side of her, although time will tell just how far Blizzard are willing to go with Jaina's personal problems however the fact is that Kalecgos is still with Jaina and he definitely seems to be her moral crutch that's keeping her together after she's felt so betrayed.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-12-11 at 04:19 PM.

  14. #34
    I do not find Jaina out of chacter, she have been the most peacefull being on azeroth. But she have just been walked over way to many times. A even after the her own City gets blowed up, she does not go kill the horde. But it is only when the horde, Walk over the very last thing she has, The neutral Dalaran. People should really go do that quest. where she explains about why she want to keep dalaran neutral, as a becon of hope. But then 2 days later the Sunreavers Aka the horde use this becon of hope to transport people into a alliance city to steal a powerfull articat
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  15. #35
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Castiel's Army
    Posts
    5,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Jaina's actions are at least moderately justifiable in that the Horde flagrantly disregarded Dalaran's neutrality in the war, whereas Garrosh's active oppression of his allies has no such justification.
    I definitely cannot disagree with that. Even after going Horde on most of my toons and liking the Horde overall, I cannot and never have been able to stand Garrosh. Even before he turned fully into the evil he is now and what he will become. I can't wait for when we get to kill him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Well actually it was aimed more at the OP's post .

    Anyway I think the current issue is people are confusing her desire to put her foot down after being betrayed by the very people she had protected for so long (twice I might add) with that of a vengeful person who hates the Horde.
    One post on the other Jaina thread even compared her Garrosh - I mean seriously!?

    Either way I think they added a little to her character without taking away the good side of her, although time will tell just how far Blizzard are willing to go with Jaina's personal problems however the fact is that Kalecgos is still with Jaina and he definitely seems to be her moral crutch that's keeping her together after she's felt so betrayed.
    Woops, sorry...hehe. :P

    Not sure I read the other Jaina thread but I definitely could never compare her to Garrosh, personally. He deserves a seat up there with most of the evil villains the game has ever known. Putting her foot down though? Perhaps, but I still see her acting out of frustration, pain and revenge. Her saying "Once a horde, always a horde, I see that now" to Varian is like condemning all of the individual members of the Horde faction to being evil, horrible people based on their race alliances, which are influenced by a small minority of people (their leaders).

    Or maybe I've just been watching too much Star Trek on Netflix, IDK. (They always seem to be completely against war/killing and condemning any one person based on the actions of another)

    In any case, in reply to the one person who mentioned Arthas. I'm not sure I could ever see Jaina going that far down that road, but I'd be lying if I said the thought of her becoming more and more corrupt didn't occur to me and make me think of that even before I read your comment.

  16. #36
    Surprised when people talk of Jaina acting out of character or snapping under the stress they just talk about recent (cata onwards) events. Maybe with the death of Arthas she'd been pretty tranced out about anything, and was just continuing the horde alliance peace brokering out of habit.

    Then when Theramore goes bye bye, she realises that she really does having NOTHING left to lose.
    >SIX A-BONG SIX A-BONG OLLY JOLLY IT'S SIX-A-BONG

  17. #37
    She might have done it differently in the past, but having your own home destroyed and friends murdered will give you some new perspective. Some of it could just be guilt, Rhonin dies to save her she feels angry and sad because that alone and goes on a spree of hate and killing as a result.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  18. #38
    I don't think so, sometimes enough is enough and you reach your limit. Even the softhearted Jaina as reached her limit. Push the right buttons and anyone will explode. For one, I think it is about time she got angry and struck back. And I play Horde. I wish thrall would get angry and kick the crap outta the sorry PoS of a leader we have now. I absolutely despise Garrosh, but that's derailing the thread. I find it quite refreshing that Jaina shows a human side and a human temper.

  19. #39
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    8,140
    Well when your home an everyone you knew & cared about there than flattened by a bomb, Ya your beyond the point of just tweaking alittle.
    I'm neither Pro or Anti Flying, I just have a different opinion on the matter.

  20. #40
    Stood in the Fire Ravlon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    not a very nice place
    Posts
    386
    Answering the question: no, she is not. It has been said multiple times.
    Unless you take into consideration her being not aggressive enough. Then I agree. Think of her family (no matter how you're different from your father - it's still your daddy), lover (of some sort, Arthas), Rhonin, kingdom (entire Lordaeron), experience in wars and so on, plus this betrayal and the obliteration of her (relatively new) home. It's a miracle she hasn't decided to blow up every thing she doesn't like. Yet?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •