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  1. #1

    Choosing a Jungler

    This has been a concern of mine for a while. I jungling 85% of the games I play. I pretty much have all the junglers that are great at jungling. My issue is, knowing when to choose others. I basically always play Maokai, Skarner, Mundo, Shyv, Shen, Lee. I just can't figure out why I would want to play the others.

    I have seen pros choosing ones like Warwick, and Cho'Gath, and Amumu. Now while I understand their general purpose in the game. I don't see when it comes to, say a tank, I would choose over Mao or Skarner.
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  2. #2
    All depends on your team composition and what your team hopes to accomplish. For example, if your a team of tanky bruiser types, you may want Maokai for his snare and his damage reduction ult. If you lack a tank, then Shen might be the go to, especially if you aim to split push a lot. Jump team? Shaco, Diana or Nocturne etc.
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  3. #3
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Depends on the following:

    1) Your skill with the champion
    2) The enemy jungler
    3) Your team
    4) The enemy team
    5) The skill of your team

    You will need to know about match ups & team compositions before you can pick based on 2-4. In general, and knowing your Elo, 5 means you want junglers that can gank and carry and telegraph to your team mates extremely well.

    E.g. Amumu bandage tossing in + snaring the entire enemy team = most idiots realise that is a good time to start the team fight.
    Last edited by Duilliath; 2012-12-11 at 03:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Castozor's Avatar
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    Amumu isn't that bad for a tank really and his ult can be a massive game changer every now and again. Not sure how much better/worse he is a being tanky than Skarner or Mao but he is quite good and packs some decent aoe damage.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Depends on the following:

    1) Your skill with the champion
    2) The enemy jungler
    3) Your team
    4) The enemy team
    5) The skill of your team

    You will need to know about match ups & team compositions before you can pick based on 2-4. In general, and knowing your Elo, 5 means you want junglers that can gank and carry and telegraph to your team mates extremely well.

    E.g. Amumu bandage tossing in + snaring the entire enemy team = most idiots realise that is a good time to start the team fight.
    I already choose based on 1,2,3. Like if they have Amumu, and we need a tank, I go with Mundo for his quick clears and tanky power. But if we have a tank for top, then I go Shyv.

    4: I could use some more work on.

    5: Is a freaking shot in the dark. lol

    But these I know already, I didn't think I made my OP clear enough. I need to know how the different junglers bring different things I guess I would say it..probably a better choice.

    Like Warwick. Why choose Warwick? Skarner is a better tank, and has a better suppression ult, and clears faster. The only thing I can think of is his choice depends on the adc/ap. Since Warwick can jump on them and suppress them so they can't escape while the team nukes them. Like an Ezreal for example.

    Then there is Cho'Gath. I know his silence is an aoe, and is good. But why would I choose him? What champions on the enemy team would I need to silence like that?

    Oh and then we got Darius. I like Darius, I like to jungle on him, but I do not see how he can work in ranked. Inferior gap closer and slows compared to other junglers. But I keep seeing him in 2k+ ranked matches. all I can think of, is that his ult will by pass champion defenses like Jax and Olaf's ults.
    Last edited by Pandragon; 2012-12-11 at 04:03 PM.
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  6. #6
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Fine, a bit more detail then

    1) If you're crap with a champion, it doesn't matter if it's a good choice to deal with the enemy jungler. That's why this it the single most important one. I can't play Shaco to save my life, so even if he'd be good for the job, I'd still fail.

    2) The enemy jungler

    Just a few examples:
    * Amumu starts slow and is not very dangerous. Until he gets lvl 6 and a few items. You -need- to disrupt and destroy him early, which means you need a champion that can duel him early game and can prevent him from hitting late game. Or by murdering/disabling him late game.
    * Warwick is slow(ish) but very safe. He will probably not successfully gank until lvl 6. You could try hunting him, but his sustain might make that dangerous. You can outfarm him with someone like Shyvana or keep him from ever reaching you with Nunu. He works well with mages that can murder someone on a bit of CC. Malzahar + WW in particular is a nasty combo if your mid laner is not prepared.
    * Jax starts off fairly slowly, though reasonably safe. He's not a major problem you think and then all of a sudden he hits level 6 w/ an item or two and straight up murders you.
    * Darius has incredible damage for a jungler and can secure kills very easily. There's few carry junglers, but he's definitely one of them.
    * Cho'gath has great sustain, brings good CC (Rupture + Silence) and insane objective control (good luck outsmiting 1500 true damage...)

    Basically, every jungler has their advantages and disadvantages and you will need to know them to be able to interpret what they will be doing. Will that Shaco still start at Red and gank at level 2? Will Tryndamere be hidden in their jungle, quietly farm up an IE + PD and then murder your entire team? Your choices and jungle path will be different because of this.

    3) Your team

    Do you need damage? Tankiness? AP? AD? Support-ish? Can you hold on to Blue? Do you need someone to initiate or do you have a Leona (bot) + Morgana (mid) + Malphite (top)?

    4) The enemy team

    Are they squishies? Do they have a lot of escapes? Gap closers? CC? Mostly AP? Mostly AD? Who's their AD carry?

    5) The skill of your team

    Explained above.

  7. #7
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    It's all down to team comp, both your's and your enemy. You won't pick Mao against a team with really good disengage because they can just move out of your ult, or get you caught when you initiate with W. Amumu on the other hand can completely lock up that same team with his ult, allowing your team to come in before they can get away. Also, do you need damage or a tank? If there is a Leona bot lane and a Shen top lane, you don't want a Maokai in the jungle. You would be relying too much on your carries for damage. This is where a Darius, WW, or Nocturne pick would be nice.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    It's all down to team comp, both your's and your enemy. You won't pick Mao against a team with really good disengage because they can just move out of your ult, or get you caught when you initiate with W. Amumu on the other hand can completely lock up that same team with his ult, allowing your team to come in before they can get away. Also, do you need damage or a tank? If there is a Leona bot lane and a Shen top lane, you don't want a Maokai in the jungle. You would be relying too much on your carries for damage. This is where a Darius, WW, or Nocturne pick would be nice.
    I typically run Olaf if we need damage. But I see what you are saying.

    I have just seen people walk out of Mao's ult though, no need for disengages. lol

    But talking about Mao's W. I have been screwed a lot cause a team fight starts. I initiate with his W on the enemies carry, and my team waits until I'm dead to actually fight.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I already choose based on 1,2,3. Like if they have Amumu, and we need a tank, I go with Mundo for his quick clears and tanky power. But if we have a tank for top, then I go Shyv.

    4: I could use some more work on.

    5: Is a freaking shot in the dark. lol

    But these I know already, I didn't think I made my OP clear enough. I need to know how the different junglers bring different things I guess I would say it..probably a better choice.

    Like Warwick. Why choose Warwick? Skarner is a better tank, and has a better suppression ult, and clears faster. The only thing I can think of is his choice depends on the adc/ap. Since Warwick can jump on them and suppress them so they can't escape while the team nukes them. Like an Ezreal for example.

    Then there is Cho'Gath. I know his silence is an aoe, and is good. But why would I choose him? What champions on the enemy team would I need to silence like that?

    Oh and then we got Darius. I like Darius, I like to jungle on him, but I do not see how he can work in ranked. Inferior gap closer and slows compared to other junglers. But I keep seeing him in 2k+ ranked matches. all I can think of, is that his ult will by pass champion defenses like Jax and Olaf's ults.
    Cho'Gath is fantastic against mobile characters, Ahri, Ezreal, etc. Especially because it's not a skillshot per se, and a massive AoE, it's hard to fail it. This means they're stuck where they are while not being able to do anything about it, sorta why Ryze is a good counter to Ahri. No skillshot CC's. Not to mention his 100% secure objectives kill with Feast and a bit of AP.

    It also depends on what your team needs. You lack disengage? Well, Cho'Gath is most certainly better at that than Maokai or Skarner.

    Warwick's sorta like anti-counterjungle. If enemy picks someone like Shyvana, WW can make sure to punish her when/if she tries to counterjungle. His ulti is also great for both offense and defense -- and can get your carries freekills when he hits lv6, meaning you can snowball heavily from there.

    Darius is one those jungle-carries. His ganks aren't that bad if your teammates has some CC of their own. And with the jungle giving decent gold, you wont fall too far behind.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackroo View Post
    Cho'Gath is fantastic against mobile characters, Ahri, Ezreal, etc. Especially because it's not a skillshot per se, and a massive AoE, it's hard to fail it. This means they're stuck where they are while not being able to do anything about it, sorta why Ryze is a good counter to Ahri. No skillshot CC's. Not to mention his 100% secure objectives kill with Feast and a bit of AP.

    It also depends on what your team needs. You lack disengage? Well, Cho'Gath is most certainly better at that than Maokai or Skarner.

    Warwick's sorta like anti-counterjungle. If enemy picks someone like Shyvana, WW can make sure to punish her when/if she tries to counterjungle. His ulti is also great for both offense and defense -- and can get your carries freekills when he hits lv6, meaning you can snowball heavily from there.

    Darius is one those jungle-carries. His ganks aren't that bad if your teammates has some CC of their own. And with the jungle giving decent gold, you wont fall too far behind.
    I thought that's what Cho was useful for, but I wasn't using him until I was sure. So that game I played today with the enemy team having Wukong top, Arhi mid, Ez bot, I should have gone with Cho instead of Mao.

    I'm confused on the lack disengage thing. Is it cause Cho has 2 aoe ccs where Mao has none, and Skarner only has a small speed boost? So if Cho is caught bad I can just silence, and knock them up to escape?

    WW: This is what's confuses me on him. When I see a WW jungle, I use Shyvana and clear his stuff before he gets to it, I never try to engage him in the jungle. But Shyv/Mundo aside, what champions is he good to use against in their lanes?

    With Darius, if top is a tank, and all lanes have cc. Kinda like, idk...umm..Singed top, Rye/Morg/Lux mid, Leona bot. Go with Darius?
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  11. #11
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I thought that's what Cho was useful for, but I wasn't using him until I was sure. So that game I played today with the enemy team having Wukong top, Arhi mid, Ez bot, I should have gone with Cho instead of Mao.

    I'm confused on the lack disengage thing. Is it cause Cho has 2 aoe ccs where Mao has none, and Skarner only has a small speed boost? So if Cho is caught bad I can just silence, and knock them up to escape?

    WW: This is what's confuses me on him. When I see a WW jungle, I use Shyvana and clear his stuff before he gets to it, I never try to engage him in the jungle. But Shyv/Mundo aside, what champions is he good to use against in their lanes?

    With Darius, if top is a tank, and all lanes have cc. Kinda like, idk...umm..Singed top, Rye/Morg/Lux mid, Leona bot. Go with Darius?
    I go Darius even without a tank. As long it's another bruiser who can build tanky. It's ridiculously easy to carry from the jungle on Darius. CC is nice in your lanes, but with good ward clearing and lane ganks you don't need it. So much upfront damage.

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    I go Darius even without a tank. As long it's another bruiser who can build tanky. It's ridiculously easy to carry from the jungle on Darius. CC is nice in your lanes, but with good ward clearing and lane ganks you don't need it. So much upfront damage.
    I look at Darius the same as Olaf. He can build tank and still roll faces cause of his true damage. I prefer having some cc in lanes to play Darius. You know how people are. If a gank doesn't result in a kill, even if the enemy used both summoner spells and recalls, the gank failed and you suck as a jungler.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    It's all down to team comp, both your's and your enemy. You won't pick Mao against a team with really good disengage because they can just move out of your ult, or get you caught when you initiate with W. Amumu on the other hand can completely lock up that same team with his ult, allowing your team to come in before they can get away. Also, do you need damage or a tank? If there is a Leona bot lane and a Shen top lane, you don't want a Maokai in the jungle. You would be relying too much on your carries for damage. This is where a Darius, WW, or Nocturne pick would be nice.
    This is VERY important. Too often I hear stories of people picking carry junglers (i.e. Fiora, Master Yi, Tryndamere) on a team with squshies such as Teemo top, LeBlanc mid, and Kog'Maw bot.

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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    This is VERY important. Too often I hear stories of people picking carry junglers (i.e. Fiora, Master Yi, Tryndamere) on a team with squshies such as Teemo top, LeBlanc mid, and Kog'Maw bot.
    Yeah I always choose my jungler based on what my team has. I rarely use a champion like Yi or Tryn. And I re-read the post you quoted, fully awake now(half asleep earlier) and I get the Mao W thing. If I go to W a champion like Ez, he can just shift into his team and drag me into them.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Yeah I always choose my jungler based on what my team has. I rarely use a champion like Yi or Tryn. And I re-read the post you quoted, fully awake now(half asleep earlier) and I get the Mao W thing. If I go to W a champion like Ez, he can just shift into his team and drag me into them.
    About Yi jungle, is jungling as AP Yi possible/a good idea, or does it have to be AD/AS?

  16. #16
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drathos View Post
    About Yi jungle, is jungling as AP Yi possible/a good idea, or does it have to be AD/AS?
    Everytime you jungle as AP Yi, another Teemo goes legendary and a baby cries. Don't do it.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Everytime you jungle as AP Yi, another Teemo goes legendary and a baby cries. Don't do it.
    I guess I'll just keep Yi for mid, then, and continue jungling with stuff like the Scorpion Towtruck, Olaf and Maokai.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I thought that's what Cho was useful for, but I wasn't using him until I was sure. So that game I played today with the enemy team having Wukong top, Arhi mid, Ez bot, I should have gone with Cho instead of Mao.

    I'm confused on the lack disengage thing. Is it cause Cho has 2 aoe ccs where Mao has none, and Skarner only has a small speed boost? So if Cho is caught bad I can just silence, and knock them up to escape?

    WW: This is what's confuses me on him. When I see a WW jungle, I use Shyvana and clear his stuff before he gets to it, I never try to engage him in the jungle. But Shyv/Mundo aside, what champions is he good to use against in their lanes?

    With Darius, if top is a tank, and all lanes have cc. Kinda like, idk...umm..Singed top, Rye/Morg/Lux mid, Leona bot. Go with Darius?
    Sorry, I blabber. Cho'Gath not as much as a disengage as it is a turtle/engage ability. The opponent rushing straight for you, but you dont want to fight? Knock-up+slow it is. Was tired last night, and I lacked wording for it lol. Gragas ulti, Janna ulti is more of a disengage.

    Disengage is also if you're running some splitpushing composition, strategy, turtle strategy(Hello CLG.EU lolz). Or if you're behind. Not just when you get caught. If they have someone like Karthus, or Amumu, having an disengage is a very good idea. Also, Cho's silence can completely fuck up Amumu.

    Maokai is still a very good pick against Ahri. Later on though, there is the risk of getting too far ahead of your team when you use your W. He's amazing for shutting her down in lanephase though, problably the best, whereas Cho is better for teamfights against them.

    Becareful when you counterjungle a WW. Whenever I see enemy using Shyvana/Mundo/Lee I always ask for a smiteless X and rush Y buff before anything else. Also, the last line, what do you mean?

    When it comes to Darius vs Olaf, you need to look at your own team. Do you need someone to just dive into the opponents? Go with Olaf. He's amazing for that. Need straight-up burst damage? Get Darius.
    Last edited by Sivalion; 2012-12-12 at 12:26 PM.

  19. #19
    Legendary! Falco Lombardi's Avatar
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    Learn Shaco, play 50+ games with him and carry yourself out of that ELO bracket you're in.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Duronos View Post
    Learn Shaco, play 50+ games with him and carry yourself out of that ELO bracket you're in.
    I already know how to play Shaco. He was actually my first jungler.
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