1. #1
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    HC Zor'lok last 20%

    Hey guys. So my guild had a few 5-7% wipes yesterday. Here is our log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6lo1v7x5ngm0gxf1/

    What we are doing is that as soon as the boss reach 40% we pop every CD and nuke the shit out of the guy and often get some good result. What happens next is that I start moving the boss down to the stairs where we drop the Echo. When the Echo spawns I move the boss to one of the opposite corners. Right as he get there he starts doing attenuation and I move start moving over to the other corner with the raid somewhere right between the corners, avoiding the attenuation. We have survived the following force and verve, where we pop every survival CD, and the next attenuation after that. But when the next force and verve start we all die due to no CDs. So we need more DPS in the end to avoid getting that force and verve and instead killing him.

    I would love to hear every single tip and trick you guys got for us.

    Our best tries were:

    Nr 21: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...=13210&e=13746

    Nr 25: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...=15795&e=16357
    Last edited by Maerran; 2012-12-07 at 12:38 PM.
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  2. #2
    We just blow every Dmg CD for the Echo, burst it down within a single Attenuation and then simply kill the boss.

    Altough the have 2 Pallies, so we can BoP 4 ppl during critical Attenuation.

    Also, if you want to nuke the Boss, you should cut a Healer, 2 healer suffices if you got enough Raid CD's to survive a single Force and Verve.

    For the Force and verve Platform you need to split up some CD, may be difficult but could work with Rallying Cry / Demo Banner / AG / 2 Tranq available (HotW Tranq heal is pretty decent) / Spirit Shell.

    Split it up that you got at least 2-3 CD's active for every Force and Verve on the 1st Platform and you should be fine.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    We just blow every Dmg CD for the Echo, burst it down within a single Attenuation and then simply kill the boss.

    Altough the have 2 Pallies, so we can BoP 4 ppl during critical Attenuation.

    Also, if you want to nuke the Boss, you should cut a Healer, 2 healer suffices if you got enough Raid CD's to survive a single Force and Verve.

    For the Force and verve Platform you need to split up some CD, may be difficult but could work with Rallying Cry / Demo Banner / AG / 2 Tranq available (HotW Tranq heal is pretty decent) / Spirit Shell.

    Split it up that you got at least 2-3 CD's active for every Force and Verve on the 1st Platform and you should be fine.
    We can survive the 2nd Force and Verve with CDs but we just simply can't survive the 3rd. We got 3 healers with one of them being a disc priest with atonement. I don't know if we can do the MC platform with 2 healers if the only healer gets MCed. We have had some random deaths with unlucky combination of abilities there.
    I'm gonna talk it over with the other guys.
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  4. #4
    If you cant survive third Force and Verve with 3 healers, your healers seriously need to step it up, it should not be any problem at all to heal through that with 3 healers, especially when one is disc priest who can almost solo heal Force and Verve with Spirit Shell pre-stacked.

    This fight can be 2 healed, you are right that you can be screwed by healer getting MCed on convert platform, but only when during time healer is MCed tank gets exhale directly on him, so he is stunned and cant use any selfheals/CDs. It happened to us about once in every 6 tries, so not too bad, that is acceptable RNG in my eyes. Other then that, just get your healer from MC asap and it should not be a problem.

    Looking at logs, your Bloodlust is almost cmpletely wasted if i read that right, you should pop it around 41-39%, so you get full zerg on him before attenuation starts.

    Also, looking at best try, you mage died due to tank being slow when picking up Echo, you warlock, shaman and druid all died on sonic rings outside of Force and Verve, you cant expect to kill boss unless people stop dying to this, it has nothing to do with third Force and Verve, you would have it killed before third Force, if almost all your dps wouldnt die to rings.
    Last edited by Brenx; 2012-12-07 at 01:11 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brenx View Post
    If you cant survive third Force and Verve with 3 healers, your healers seriously need to step it up, it should not be any problem at all to heal through that with 3 healers, especially when one is disc priest who can almost solo heal Force and Verve with Spirit Shell pre-stacked.

    This fight can be 2 healed, you are right that you can be screwed by healer getting MCed on convert platform, but only when during time healer is MCed tank gets exhale directly on him, so he is stunned and cant use any selfheals/CDs. It happened to us about once in every 6 tries, so not too bad, that is acceptable RNG in my eyes. Other then that, just get your healer from MC asap and it should not be a problem.

    Looking at logs, your Bloodlust is almost cmpletely wasted if i read that right, you should pop it around 41-39%, so you get full zerg on him before attenuation starts.

    Also, looking at best try, you mage died due to tank being slow when picking up Echo, you warlock, shaman and druid all died on sonic rings outside of Force and Verve, you cant expect to kill boss unless people stop dying to this, it has nothing to do with third Force and Verve, you would have it killed before third Force, if almost all your dps wouldnt die to rings.
    We are popping lust at 40%, right before he lifts off. I think that is enough before the attenuation. As it seems our resto druid, shaman, warlock and balance druid are having enourmous problems dodging the rings. It feels like one or two of them dies every time.

    It feels like the Echo spawns randomly next to the boss, do you know if it's a fixed direction from the boss, like to the left/right of the boss where he is facing. That time the Echo spawned right on top of the mage and the tank didn't manage to get it in time.

    We should be able to survive the 3rd force and verve but I think our resto druid hasn't made it there alive a single time though.

    Also, on the attenuation platforms we are only 5 people there dodging the rings and the rest are running to the first platform and then warlock gate back. That's because they kept dying on the attenuation platform. Should we stick them on the platform and force them to learn how to dodge it or should we just hope that they know what the fuck to do in the last phase? I mean dodging the rings in the last phase is very easy if you got a good position when he does them.


    Also on the force and verve we have 2 people standing out, one of them being me the tank. I almost always pop Shield wall there or some other CDs if it's not ready. After that it feels like my survival is extremely low but it might be to lack of heals.
    Last edited by Maerran; 2012-12-07 at 02:55 PM.
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  6. #6
    If you have 3 good healers, major cooldowns for force and verve aren't absolutely necessary. It doesn't hit for that much if people are inside the zones. On the first two FnVs of the fight (in the smaller platform), I'm actually DPSing the entire time with Heart of the Wild, so it's effectively being two healed there.

    If you're having trouble with people dying to Attenuation a lot, consider killing off the echo as someone pointed out. Then the fight simply becomes Run Away -> Stack -> Run Away -> Stack -> Rinse Repeat, without the need to dodge too many rings at once. The fight lasts longer this way (meaning more Force and Verves), but since you said you have half the raid avoiding Attenuation altogether in P1, it might be a better option for you.

    Although honestly, either your healing or your dodging has to step up. Some druid specific tips: Have your resto druid use Symbiosis on the Mage to gain Ice Block. He can use it if he gets caught in an awkward spot. Druids can also shift to Bear Form or pop Might of Ursoc if they might get hit by a ring. Since the damage is physical, the extra armor often prevents outright deaths.

    How are you guys dodging Attenuation anyway?
    Ashr

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrr View Post
    If you have 3 good healers, major cooldowns for force and verve aren't absolutely necessary. It doesn't hit for that much if people are inside the zones. On the first two FnVs of the fight (in the smaller platform), I'm actually DPSing the entire time with Heart of the Wild, so it's effectively being two healed there.

    If you're having trouble with people dying to Attenuation a lot, consider killing off the echo as someone pointed out. Then the fight simply becomes Run Away -> Stack -> Run Away -> Stack -> Rinse Repeat, without the need to dodge too many rings at once. The fight lasts longer this way (meaning more Force and Verves), but since you said you have half the raid avoiding Attenuation altogether in P1, it might be a better option for you.

    Although honestly, either your healing or your dodging has to step up. Some druid specific tips: Have your resto druid use Symbiosis on the Mage to gain Ice Block. He can use it if he gets caught in an awkward spot. Druids can also shift to Bear Form or pop Might of Ursoc if they might get hit by a ring. Since the damage is physical, the extra armor often prevents outright deaths.

    How are you guys dodging Attenuation anyway?
    On the 2nd and 3rd Force and Verve we got 2 healers 1 tank and all 5 DPS at the boss and 1 tank 1 healer at the Echo. So me and one of the DPSers steps out, I think it's most often the mage with Ice Block.

    At the start we were trying to kill the Echo first but it seemed like a lot of hassle and just generally messed up since we never managed to kill it. So instead we switched to nuking the boss and getting a fast kill. On the platform me and the other 4 players run around the boss in a circle. In the last phase I run from the corner the boss is in to the other corner. Since we only have ranged we shouldn't lose any DPS having the boss running across the room so I figured that was a good idea. I don't really watch the DPS doing so but I know that the mage and the hunter always succesfully doges them since they are 2 of the 5 that do it on the platform.

    I will ask the druid who he is symbiosing, Ice Block could be really useful on him. I will tell that to both of the druids, thanks for the tips!
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  8. #8
    During progress and in our very first kill, we did it the way you are doing in P2 with 1 tank and 1 healer with the Echo in the other side of the room. However, we had Paladins so we could always BoP the healer going there. This way, the healer stood somewhere in the middle of the P2 platform and could easily get back near the raid for the incoming Force and Verve to assist with the healing. Right after that, we sent another healer out to assist the Echo tank since the previous healer would have Forbearance.

    Since you don't seem to have the luxury of BoPs, I'd really suggest trying to kill off the Echo again. How we do it now is wait for the Echo to spawn around the middle while one tank takes the boss far away. We break any MCs and then pop Bloodlust for the Echo. I think we killed him even while he was casting an Attenuation once, but another time I remember DPSing freely as a Resto Druid popping Heart of the Wild. He shouldn't be hard to kill with BL. After he's down, just run in and out for the boss. It may take you some time to get it right but if you're really having dodging problems and a sub optimal set up, I think it's better off this way for your group.

    Another thing is, do the people who die constantly have high MS by any chance? I play with 200+ MS and I died a few times to rings that were far away from me in my screen. Lag spikes can be fatal on that boss and unfortunately, there's nothing you can really do about this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=36_yRimxYgE to see what I mean.
    Ashr

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrr View Post
    If you have 3 good healers, major cooldowns for force and verve aren't absolutely necessary. It doesn't hit for that much if people are inside the zones. On the first two FnVs of the fight (in the smaller platform), I'm actually DPSing the entire time with Heart of the Wild, so it's effectively being two healed there.

    If you're having trouble with people dying to Attenuation a lot, consider killing off the echo as someone pointed out. Then the fight simply becomes Run Away -> Stack -> Run Away -> Stack -> Rinse Repeat, without the need to dodge too many rings at once. The fight lasts longer this way (meaning more Force and Verves), but since you said you have half the raid avoiding Attenuation altogether in P1, it might be a better option for you.

    Although honestly, either your healing or your dodging has to step up. Some druid specific tips: Have your resto druid use Symbiosis on the Mage to gain Ice Block. He can use it if he gets caught in an awkward spot. Druids can also shift to Bear Form or pop Might of Ursoc if they might get hit by a ring. Since the damage is physical, the extra armor often prevents outright deaths.

    How are you guys dodging Attenuation anyway?
    We did same thing you wrote with warlock gate, but only 1 person from our 10man was not able to dodge attenuation consistently, so he was able to use gate both ways and not lose DPS. 5 people doing same seems little too much, you should practice it more.
    Rule of thumb is:

    If you are all standing in front of boss, including tank(we did this because it completely nullifies Exhale and DPS is not an issue), watch for which direction do rings spawn, DBM shows arrow for this.
    If you have RIGHT attenuation, you dodge first line of rings, and then run to the right.
    If you have LEFT attenuation, you run immediately to the left.

    If you all stand stacked behind boss, i believe it turns out to be opposite of what i wrote, so go immediately on right and wait 1 on left.

    Most important tip is, once you run between two lines of the rings, keep close to the inner line, even tho common sense tells you otherwise, because ring animations appears faster then actual damaging area is, so you are much more likely getting hit by the outer ring, that looks like it already passed your way. You can literally run inside rings that are coming from the middle, and as long as you dont overdo it and dont let yourself get completely overrun by them, you wont even take a dmg from them, because they are actually way behind their animation.

    Sorry for my English, explaining how Attenuation works seems to be quite over my language skills
    Last edited by Brenx; 2012-12-07 at 03:57 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrr View Post
    During progress and in our very first kill, we did it the way you are doing in P2 with 1 tank and 1 healer with the Echo in the other side of the room. However, we had Paladins so we could always BoP the healer going there. This way, the healer stood somewhere in the middle of the P2 platform and could easily get back near the raid for the incoming Force and Verve to assist with the healing. Right after that, we sent another healer out to assist the Echo tank since the previous healer would have Forbearance.

    Since you don't seem to have the luxury of BoPs, I'd really suggest trying to kill off the Echo again. How we do it now is wait for the Echo to spawn around the middle while one tank takes the boss far away. We break any MCs and then pop Bloodlust for the Echo. I think we killed him even while he was casting an Attenuation once, but another time I remember DPSing freely as a Resto Druid popping Heart of the Wild. He shouldn't be hard to kill with BL. After he's down, just run in and out for the boss. It may take you some time to get it right but if you're really having dodging problems and a sub optimal set up, I think it's better off this way for your group.

    Another thing is, do the people who die constantly have high MS by any chance? I play with 200+ MS and I died a few times to rings that were far away from me in my screen. Lag spikes can be fatal on that boss and unfortunately, there's nothing you can really do about this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=36_yRimxYgE to see what I mean.
    We might go back to trying to kill the Echo again but we should have killed the boss before the 3rd force and verve if people could dodge attenuation.

    Honestly no one of them have complained about MS lagg so I just guess they suck at dancing :P


    Quote Originally Posted by Brenx View Post
    We did same thing you wrote with warlock gate, but only 1 person from our 10man was not able to dodge attenuation consistently, so he was able to use gate both ways and not lose DPS. 5 people doing same seems little too much, you should practice it more.
    Rule of thumb is:

    If you are all standing in front of boss, including tank(we did this because it completely nullifies Exhale and DPS is not an issue), watch for which direction do rings spawn, DBM shows arrow for this.
    If you have RIGHT attenuation, you dodge first line of rings, and then run to the right.
    If you have LEFT attenuation, you run immediately to the left.

    If you all stand stacked behind boss, i believe it turns out to be opposite of what i wrote, so go immediately on right and wait 1 on left.

    Most important tip is, once you run between two lines of the rings, keep close to the inner line, even tho common sense tells you otherwise, because ring animations appears faster then actual damaging area is, so you are much more likely getting hit by the outer ring, that looks like it already passed your way. You can literally run inside rings that are coming from the middle, and as long as you dont overdo it and dont let yourself get completely overrun by them, you wont even take a dmg from them, because they are actually way behind their animation.

    Sorry for my English, explaining how Attenuation works seems to be quite over my language skills
    Yeah, we who do dodge it know exactly what do and to make things interesting we usually yell out NO DAMAGE CLUB! every time we take no damage, which happens quite a lot so we laugh about it. It feels so horrible that we have at least 4 people completely unable to dodge those simple rings.
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  11. #11
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    Finally killed it. Killed the Echo first hand a quite a bit of time left on the enrage. All 10 alive and not a single CR used. Just had that perfect try.
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  12. #12
    Try 2 healing it and only get 2 force and verve in last phase. Most likely will kill on the 3rd or right before. That's what we did on our first kill.

    Edit: Nevermind seems like you got it.

  13. #13
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6...=13702&e=13741

    Dat priest healing. Tell your priest by the time F+V hits it's too late to start getting evangelism stacks LOLOL

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