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  1. #1
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Expertise as Assassination?

    Mage has been my main since WotLK, so don't play melee classes, rogue hit 90 last week. I know the 7.5% hit/expertise, however shadowcraft had me reforging out of Exp to get it low as possible. Is expertise just bad for us or am I doing something wrong?
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  2. #2
    Mastery is better for assassination....but enough gear forces you close enough to cap that you might as well do it.

  3. #3
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoobins View Post
    Mastery is better for assassination....but enough gear forces you close enough to cap that you might as well do it.
    So if I have no mastery, reforge into it, if the gear has mastery, go into expertise if I am not capped?
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  4. #4
    High Overlord Firatha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoobins View Post
    Mastery is better for assassination....
    Umm no? You do want to get as close to the 7.5% hit/expertise as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    So if I have no mastery, reforge into it, if the gear has mastery, go into expertise if I am not capped?
    Here http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us...SDirimtkMt8vwX use this for reforging/gemming

    EDIT ops that one is mine just click the title/logo shadowcraft
    Last edited by Firatha; 2012-12-11 at 08:00 PM.
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  5. #5
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Mage has been my main since WotLK, so don't play melee classes, rogue hit 90 last week. I know the 7.5% hit/expertise, however shadowcraft had me reforging out of Exp to get it low as possible. Is expertise just bad for us or am I doing something wrong?

    Forgive me if I am wrong - it's been a while since I played.. but I luved assass spec. Exp. is a stat for reducing your parried and dodged attackes - the reason this was always a subpar stat for this spec was - you are supposed to always (do your best) be behind your target as assass, where attacks shouldn't be getting parried or dodged. So putting stats into exp. is seen as a waste. But - i always based it on the current content, sometimes being behind 100% isn't possible - sometimes there is a lot of running around and exp. becomes more valuable (to you). But yea, stack mastery - avoid Exp. if you can be behind the target as much as possible.

  6. #6
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firatha View Post
    Umm no? You do want to get as close to the 7.5% hit/expertise as possible.



    Here http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/us...SDirimtkMt8vwX use this for reforging/gemming

    EDIT ops that one is mine just click the title/logo shadowcraft
    Yeah, shadowcraft is what told me to reforge out of expertise and such. Which is what threw me off
    Battletag: Rhaegas#1141
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  7. #7
    High Overlord Lichu's Avatar
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    Use Shadowcraft, trust it's results.
    At certain gear levels mastery more than makes up for lack of expertise.

  8. #8
    High Overlord Firatha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lichu View Post
    Use Shadowcraft, trust it's results.
    At certain gear levels mastery more than makes up for lack of expertise.
    You still need a good amount the way they put it they made it seem like you wanted as close to zero as you can it wants me at 7% but I really dont feel comfortable unless im as close to cap as I can get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
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  9. #9
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lichu View Post
    Use Shadowcraft, trust it's results.
    At certain gear levels mastery more than makes up for lack of expertise.
    Ok I will go with that then, thank you.
    Battletag: Rhaegas#1141
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  10. #10
    High Overlord Firatha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Ok I will go with that then, thank you.
    Well wait how much mastery is it wanting you to have?
    Quote Originally Posted by MyLifeIsRandom View Post
    The bricks I'm shoving into this cannon are definitely not aimed at you. No need to worry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esdese View Post
    No, silent ones are the best. Nothing is worse than hearing a German dude go "JAH SCHMECK DASS, DASS SCHMECK GUT JAAAH".
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    I'm bi and prefer female friendly porn Seeing a jacked dude with tribal tats and military grade hair plowing this screaming banshee kills my little manakin

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Forgive me if I am wrong - it's been a while since I played.. but I luved assass spec. Exp. is a stat for reducing your parried and dodged attackes - the reason this was always a subpar stat for this spec was - you are supposed to always (do your best) be behind your target as assass, where attacks shouldn't be getting parried or dodged. So putting stats into exp. is seen as a waste. But - i always based it on the current content, sometimes being behind 100% isn't possible - sometimes there is a lot of running around and exp. becomes more valuable (to you). But yea, stack mastery - avoid Exp. if you can be behind the target as much as possible.
    Mobs can dodge from behind, so...your logic is flawed.

  12. #12
    The Patient Isoge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firatha View Post
    You still need a good amount the way they put it they made it seem like you wanted as close to zero as you can it wants me at 7% but I really dont feel comfortable unless im as close to cap as I can get.
    Expertise is almost useless as assassination. It was useful when we had the legendary daggers due to its 5 CP procc (which was made useful by expertise for not missing any one of those envenom spams). However, now that we have anticipation (which makes it easier to avoid CP capping and thus wasting CP) and the fact that we get the envenom buff whether the envenom hits or not.... Well you figure out the rest. You actually gain more DPS from going for full mastery thanks to the env. buff rather than the lousy 30k hit you get from the envenom melee hit and the weaker poison hits (due to expertise capping).

    So OP, trust Shadowcraft, trust Elitistjerks, and if not, try both of the theories and make your mind up yourself.


    Btw, here are the stat weighs from EJ:

    Agi 2.72
    Yellow Hit 1.80
    Mastery 1.15
    Expertise 1.08
    Haste 1.02
    Crit 0.99
    White Hit 0.64

  13. #13
    You are forgetting blindside though. The other reason exp was so low for assassination in cata is that the majority of your energy gets refunded on any dodged attack. So yeah you get the envenom buff still and if you were spending energy you get most of it refunded, but blindside procs are consumed whether or not it lands (which if not just cost you the damage and 1-2 cps which would have been used to get a higher envenom uptime). Now clearly that is already reflected in the theorycrafting EP values. I'm just adding that because you aren't painting the entire picture.

  14. #14
    Expertise to cap is better than crit or haste. Since all your target pieces are mastery+hit/crit/haste/expertise, you will reforge to expertise over crit or haste.

    So my original reply stands.

    Edit: not to mention, there are at least two bosses this tier where you are potentially dpsing from in front for part of the time.

  15. #15
    shadowcraft told me to reforge exp away i got like 8% more poison damage out of it now at 4,5% exp
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  16. #16
    Shadowcraft is telling me to reforge out of exp and INTO crit...

  17. #17
    7,5 % expertise = more sustained and reliable damage
    < 7,5 % expertise = more possible damage, but unreliable

    Same as always.

  18. #18
    I recomment taking expertise for Assassination.

    I know having a special parried only costs 7 energy and you get the envenom buff if envenom is parried or dodged, having a dispatch proc parried or dodged is a major dps loss. I personally do not go for the cap over mastery but get expertise over haste.

  19. #19
    High Overlord Lichu's Avatar
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    So, even though there is a tool at your disposal (Shadowcraft) which is accepted as the standard for the rogue community, you're going to ignore what that tool tells you in regards to reforging expertise and mastery because you somehow know better than the tool which is accepted as the standard?

    OK... whatever floats your boat. If it makes you feel better or more secure or whatever to cap expertise at the expense of dps, go for it.

  20. #20
    Im joining the shadowcraft told me to forge out... they had me at 3%exp. Im waiting to see how I do in HOF tonight but it is odd.

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