1. #1
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Grand Empress Shekzeer as prot warrior

    yup. there's my problem. seems like I'm a bit too squishy for that boss. so I'm looking for some tips.

    what I'm currently doing is, I basically do my normal rotation (with shield block) in p1 when I'm tanking and burst a bit damage via HS when I'm not. But this is not the problem. I'll try to get at least 90 rage for when p2 starts. when it does, I leap into the adds, do one shield block. then TC + BB, so I get the initial threat on the adds. after that, I'll use shockwave on CD, so they get stunned every now and then, and after the first shockwave, I instantly use shield wall, after the second trinket + demoshout. in between I think that shield barrier is better than block, because I get so smashed in the face, that I easily get absorb shields > 400k.

    and there's the problem. after cooldowns run out, I get smashed into the face HARD. I am very much in danger of dying there. and this currently is the reason, we wipe. the second tank does not seem to have that problem - he is a druid. at least not that often.

    so now I am seeking or tips - what can I do better?

    my gear is http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%B8rk/advanced and if anyone is interested in logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/152062/ - just check today's raid with all trys on that boss.


    thanks in advance guys
    -xeb

  2. #2
    What adds are you tanking, how many etc

    piercing howl kiting between shockwaves is what I generally do

  3. #3
    Basically,I tank this on heroic and as a warrior you are the best class ever to tank those adds,I tank 3 of them and as p2 starts,i leap,shield block shockwave,then tclap yada yada revenge blabla,shield wall,and use shield barrier,once barrier is down apply new one,rinse repeat and you will take close to 0 dmg,every time you have 3 adds up on you use some cd,swall first,then demo shout,then demo banner etc,also weave in shockwaves and you will be the king of mitigation.

    Just remember to track your shield barrier with needtoknow or similar addon so you know when it gets consumed so you put new one immediately = 0 dmg taken.I hope this helps you.

  4. #4
    Ive only ever tanked this on heroic really but I wouldnt advise shockwaving the adds on heroic as it basically lines up all there melee attacks in one go, its fine if you have a big barrier ready but it can lead to random gibs if you don't.
    Generally for boss tanking phases just keep block up and burn off any excess rage with barriers on field explosions, you should have enough cds to survive that phase easily, for adds try and pool rage going into add phase so you can have as close to rage cap as possible, leap into the 3 adds with barrier up and even an armour pot if you're worried, you can thunderclap first to get them more grouped if needed then drag them into position with wall up, you should have enough vengeance for some decent barriers at this point and from then on just keep your rage gen as high as possible and track your absorbs so you know when its going to break and you have another barrier ready. You will have such insane vengeance that the mobs won't break your barriers if you use them right, if you're tanking the far side adds try running/leaping to them barrier ( +pot if needed) tclap if there spread otherside shockwave them for aggro, then thunderclap then run back into position and they should all come to you allowing you time to get wall ready and an opening barrier ready for incoming dmg.

    For normal mode I guess you could just solo tank the lot in add phase and use barriers to pretty much negate all the dmg depending on gear, just remember its all about the first few seconds of that phase, once you have the adds picked up you should have enough vengeance to basically negate the dmg unless you have some bad rage problems, block is good for initial pickup but barriers king on this, make sure you're hit/exp capped for this to help.

    having an addon to track vengeance and barrier's absorb amount is very useful for this fight, as you can literally tell when your shield will break and based on vengeance how much the next one will absorb.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    thanks so far for all the tips. first of all, I should've mentioned, that we're 10 man normal raiding.
    Basically we are using the tactics that I'm tanking the right side, and the druid the left side, so we both have 3 small adds + one big one. I didn't know that SW resets the swingtimer and thus resulting in peaks of damage. so I'll try to skip that next time, maybe this will help a bit.
    I have an addon to track vengeance and see the remaining absorb. this is why I also figured out, that it's better to use SBarr instead of SBlock in P2. at least it's good to see that confirmed

    I also got a PM, telling that it may be better to tank all small adds, while the other tank tanks the two big ones... but isn't that even more damage? having 6 mobs (or 5 if one is fixating) results in 180%/150% more damage done by each add. and since I was shockwaving, the damage done by the big add isn't really that problematic, so I assume, when I'm tanking five of the small ones, I risk getting instagibbed even more, don't I? But I guess, we'll try today. We just have to rotate cooldowns on me then. We'll try tonight, so I try to report back on how which tactic turned out for us.

    another question would be, do you guys recommend two or three healers? we tried the complete evening with three healers, but switched at the last two tries to two healers. since we were using another tank than, we didn't really survive p2 longer than 10 seconds, because he wasn't familiar with the incoming damage yet. but healers said, that P1 is "healable" with two healers.
    Last edited by xebtria; 2012-12-12 at 06:54 AM.

  6. #6
    It looks like you are dying right out of a shockwave when you don't have cds up. This is because all the adds have synced swing timers coming out of a stun. So after you stun back up 3-4 steps so they spread out their hits.

  7. #7
    Just stick with your side. There's no need to split up the small adds and big adds.

  8. #8
    Hi,

    we had the same Problem initially, how do you kill the adds in P2?

    Splitting the adds up can lead to more problems imho, so we just let each tank take 1 side, me left and druid right. I do nearly the same stuff as you do, rotate CDs. I pool Rage -> Leap in -> Thunderclap -> Shield Wall + DM Trinket -> After SW fades have Shield Block up + Demoshout and maybe Banner -> Here i use Barriers only because of the high vengeance, shockwave and focus on 1 add which i can kill alone before DDs come and help me.

    What your raid wants to do is maximum single target dmg, not AE. So they choose a side where all DDs start, lets say the druid one. While the adds run in the druid marks 2, you mark 2 on your side and the DDs instagib the marks on the druid side so that only 1 big and 1 small add are living. Then its pretty easy to heal and DDs switch to your side and instagib 1-2 small adds. At this point where they come to help you, your CDs should be running out, 1 add is random fixating around the room and you maybe even killed 1 add alone. Since the druid has an easier time with DMG intake, healers should be aware that and WHEN your CDs run out to get you topped. Communicate and tell them "guys, my SW CDs run out in 5sec, keep me up!"

    That worked for us, we nearly never have any tank dead with 2 healers. Here is one of my kills if you wanna compare http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5...?s=2243&e=2704

    Edit: In your log i noticed that you are doing the fight with 3 Healers, for practise sake you should switch to 2 Healers, since you only want 1 Add phase (i believe you hit the enrage if you get 2 addphases). You wont be able to hit that with 3 healers and 1 less DD with your raids DPS. So before you fail later, switch for your new attempts!

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Kroni; 2012-12-12 at 02:42 PM.

  9. #9
    Just to be redundant and agree with what else has been said,

    Do not use shockwave, unless it's a last resort. It will sync the adds attacks and they will roll all over you. The only major incoming damage is from P2, and it's mostly at the start of the fight. After an add dies, and/or one goes off to focus on someone else the damage inc will be easily dealt with.


    I wouldn't bother with the taking all type unless you are having extreme problems with the fight. You should have every possible defensive CD + trinkets up for this phase, it's really the only one to care about as a tank. Shield Wall into Demo Shout, Demo Banner if you'd like, saving healer CDs and using if required, is usually more than enough. Focus down one add, then another. We leave two up for amber spawns, then kill them once the traps are (nearly) built, and if all else fails talent Piercing Howl and kite like no tomorrow.

    Unless you aren't meeting the DPS targets (only 1 add phase) just 3 heal it, I could imagine the last phase being iffy with 2 at times.
    Only make passive aggressive posts when it doesn't make you look like a dumbass.

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  10. #10
    Hmm, I tank these bad boys in phase 2. Never done heroic but in normal, I tank all 6 of the small adds and let the other tank hold the big ones. So, this is what happens...

    Phase 2 starts, I charge in the right group and thunderclap while a hunter misdirects the group on the left. After the initial thunderclap, I heroic leap to the left group (which by now should be apx in the middle). Once everyone is gathered, I thunderclap + bb. I shockwave immediately. While shockwave stun is wearing off, I yell out to my disc priest for Pain suppression. (ShieldWall can work too honestly if an external cooldown is not available) During the duration of said cooldown, I have my shieldblock up along with demo shout and do as much dmg/threat as possible. After this, ask for another stun from a DPS and I just keep spamming piercing howl and kite all day by heroic leaping/intervening/and charging.

    I never go back to the group of mobs to do dmg. Only stay within 8 or so yards to spam piercing howl. Once 3 or so adds are dead, I just stand and tank it because they hit like lil girls by then.

  11. #11
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    Yeah kiting is alright for normal mode. But if you get P2 right it's rather easy. The trick when you tank 4-6 mobs is revenge. It procs 24/7 in this phase. Shield Wall glyph is nice if you only go for one add phase
    Fat kids are harder to kidnap

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesuj View Post
    This is because all the adds have synced swing timers coming out of a stun. So after you stun back up 3-4 steps so they spread out their hits.
    This is the right answer to OP and wise usage of cd's is recommended too. I'm not prot tho so I don't know anything about wise CD usage.

  13. #13
    Obviously it all gets better with gear improvements. I can tank one of the sides without using shieldwall/last stand sometimes. Just remember to rotate your cds and interrupt dispatch to mitigate as much damage as posible.

    Also, don't forget to call out for defensive cooldowns like Ironbark/Hand of Sac/Guardian Spirit(Pain Sup) as it really helps you.

  14. #14
    CDs are only needed for the first 10 seconds or so. As soon as 1 add dies or they start to focus and walk around the damage is reduced drastically.

    I am a prot warrior and we do the following;
    1 Tank Right - me Left.
    Leap into adds with shield wall popped - everyone attacks adds on my side and kills them all (except the reaver ofc)
    As soon as the first add dies or starts to get kited away, taunt one of the small adds from the other tank and he will taunt the reaver.
    Keep taunting adds until he has 2 reavers and nothing more and you have the rest (Your raid should stop attacking smalls anyway to get your trap up quicker).

    Damage is insanely low as soon as one of the adds dies or starts to walk around, so just control the first 10-12 seconds (Shield wall - easy) and the rest is simple.

  15. #15
    Generally speaking I'll start off the adds phase by a leap + TC with wall and stand up for the initial hits while I gain vengeance for the barriers. Both myself and my co-tank (another prot warrior) spec into dragon roar purely for damage. Shockwave is pretty crappy (as someone mentioned earlier on) due to it lining up all their swing timers, especially as they all essentially dual-wield. Then it's simply a case of rotating various other personals you have left with externals where necessary and simply focusing on dps and barrier uptime.

    You're estimates on shield barrier are slightly out, although I didn't check to see if you were 10 or 25, but in 25 man at least you can expect to see shield barriers reaching upto roughly 1 million per use, this alone will keep you alive more than anything as vengeance will reach to ~400k AP. However, looking at your gear it's no surprise you're getting stomped, unfortunately.

    Due to the scumbag posting restrictions, I can't post a video of our first kill, however if you're interested in seeing a prot warriors PoV on that, search for Ad Infinitum vs Grand Empress Shek'zeer on youtube. Perhaps that can show you what I mean a little bit better than what I've written.

    Good luck!

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