Raids in GW2?

[Deleted]

So my question is do you think it work with raids in GW2?

I myself would love to have some raids to do something that needs 15+ coordinated friends to beat and i have never understood why so many on are against it. If we would get raids in GW2 that dose not mean we will get vertical progression. why would we need that? They could make it so you could get cool looking armor sets from those raids and the prestige of killing that hard boss all in the name of fun. The best thing about such a raid system would be that there wont be any raids that go obsolete because there is no vertical progression.

So what do you think? would it be good/bad with raids give us your thoughts on this topic and if you hate raids so much please do tell why.

Fanatic out see you in Tyria

[Fencers]

Considering GW2 dungeons were the most un-enjoyable & uninteresting I have played outside of re-branded Korean grinders? There are not enough Ms, Es and Hs to express the "meh" GW2 raids would likely bring for me.

That said, I think raid-like instances, in so far as greater than group size 5, is possible. I don't think it'll be anything worth noting or prestigious, but still possible. Creating an instance with 10/20 player limit is no great shakes.

[Durzlla]

Considering GW2 dungeons were the most un-enjoyable & uninteresting I have played outside of re-branded Korean grinders? There are not enough Ms, Es and Hs to express the "meh" GW2 raids would likely bring for me.

That said, I think raid-like instances, in so far as greater than group size 5, is possible. I don't think it'll be anything worth noting or prestigious, but still possible. Creating an instance with 10/20 player limit is no great shakes.

OUCH, harsh... Personally i wouldn't say they're -that- bad, i can name a few WoW instances that i wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole *cough cough* Vashjir 5 man (that saddened me since that was my favorite zone hands down). However, yeah... i don't think GW2 is the pinnacle of dungeons period... i don't really think they could -do- raids to the extent of say Rift, or even WoW tbh.

That being said, some of the group events that aren't done very often anymore *cough temple of balthazar cough cough* make for perfect raid environments (granted other people will jump in).

[Fencers]

OUCH, harsh... Personally i wouldn't say they're -that- bad, i can name a few WoW instances that i wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole *cough cough* Vashjir 5 man (that saddened me since that was my favorite zone hands down). However, yeah... i don't think GW2 is the pinnacle of dungeons period... i don't really think they could -do- raids to the extent of say Rift, or even WoW tbh.

I don't think there is a way to create strategically interesting fights with GW2's combat mechanics. The entire allure of prestigious raiding is the encounter puzzle. Figuring out that puzzle is the key mechanic of raiding as popularized by Everquest.

"Raids" would just be 10 player dungeons in GW2 I think. Can't imagine Anet's encounter designers [loose term because I think they are awful] can work around the twitch/action basis of the game engine.

[Durzlla]

I don't think there is a way to create strategically interesting fights with GW2's combat mechanics. The entire allure of prestigious raiding is the encounter puzzle. Figuring out that puzzle is the key mechanic of raiding as popularized by Everquest.

"Raids" would just be 10 player dungeons in GW2 I think. Can't imagine Anet's encounter designers [loose term because I think they are awful] can work around the twitch/action basis of the game engine.

I can see them doing the puzzle sort of thing, but i doubt they'd do it for large man content, then again, they've said they may consider doing raids, so who knows! I personally hope they wont because that'll be content i'll likely never see (i dread trying to find 10 competent players to coordinate things, but i suppose in GW2 it'd be easier because i don't need to shun people not playing a certain role...).

That being said idk why you despise their dungeon mechanics so much, there are some like fractals that are awesome, then you get others that are just kinda, excuse me while i go bash my face into a wall because this is taking SO FUCKING LONG WITHOUT ANY CHANGE!

[Fencers]

That being said idk why you despise their dungeon mechanics so much, there are some like fractals that are awesome, then you get others that are just kinda, excuse me while i go bash my face into a wall because this is taking SO FUCKING LONG WITHOUT ANY CHANGE!

Mostly it's the no tanking thing. I just don't enjoy playing a DPS w/ options. I only tank. That's it. No other role in a role playing game interests me to any degree.

Personal preference aside; I think the dungeons are like... well, boring. Many times I couldn't even tell we were fighting a boss. Everything seemed the same. No strategy for the most part. All twitch/action Nintendo stuff- no higher thought process, no "figuring it out".

Add to this the sloppy design of things like; blind pulls, gotcha mechanics, attrition mechanics, mobs with insane amount of health but no other interesting consideration. Everything is basically 'kite-push/pull-kite'.

No real sense of needed team work either. When someone in the group dies or is downed it hardly seems to make any difference in the encounter.

For example, my sister left in the middle of that werewolf fight to feed the dogs once. She stood auto attacking for a good 1-2 mins. Was downed for another 30 or so seconds. Dead. Nobody rez'd her after. Meh. Didn't matter werewolf went down in more less the same fashion as always.

It's not a matter of "challenge". I am okay with dungeons either being easy or hard. Makes no difference. It just like the dungeons and encounters are designed stupidly.

Fractals were kinda the same with a bunch of "mini games" attached to the run. Which I did not enjoy or find compelling. More of the same as normal dungeons- just shorter and far more repetitive. What is even the point of doing the one with the birds over & over? Or that giant one?

Meeeeeeeeeeehhhh. Most uninteresting, chaotic, badly designed and pointless dungeons I've played.

As always, one's penchant for action-y games probably plays into the enjoyment. But I don't enjoy shooting, jumping or twitch games generally speaking. I am far more excited about spreadsheet I downloaded comparing effective health than in dodging a fireball.

[Maarius]

I have to disagree, fractals are pretty funny and I like the encounters too. I like that those fractals have a very consistent feeling putting all the fun gameplay-elements into a nice package. Small jumping puzzle sections just feel naturally here (like the climb to the colossus upper parts) and as a non-hardcore player (with other non-hardcore players) we definitely had to figure out some of the battles indeed.

They adressed the problems with graveyard-rushing too, so you have to play according to a certain strategy too (we had). It's nice to see such a big improvement from normal dungeons to fractals only 3 months after launch. I have to say though, that I certainly don't hate the normal dungeons either. Each of them have their own distinct feeling and I don't know why certain people just rush through (perhaps they are too good players who need ever more difficult situations), for me it's just hard enough at the moment. And sometimes pretty unvorgiving. After reading all that stuff in the forums about how easy those dungeons are and not needing any strategy I'm quite happy that I seem to be a bad player, because I don't have that problems... neither do my guildies. We certainly experienced better outcome when playing with a certain strategy.

That said I think that a group-size of 5 people is ideal for such dungeons. It's clear for me with whom I could and should interact, I think GW2-encounters are a lot about interaction within a party instead of just the enemy. Downed-status is an important part of gameplay and it doesn't mean (IMHO) that you are a bad player when you got downed. It's just a new situation and people have to accomodate to it. In such small group-situations the strenghts of GW2 shine, everyone working together and switching roles on the fly in order to keep each other alive. Found a few nice situations with my Mesmer, where peope were pretty surprised how much I could bring to groupplay. People went down one after another so I called my IBerserkers to cripple the enemy, lured them away, popped Time Warp and speed rezzed my friends. Switched to Focus and layed down Temporal Curtain to 1 cripple the enemies & 2 pushed them back from my still weak friends which gave them enough time to heal up again.

I think this kind of cohesion is missing in bigger groups - not sure about it, just my feeling. People in big groups wouldn't find the need to switch roles, the importance of it wouldn't be there in that extent. I think you would see people who do only dps and such thing isn't that productive in smaller groups. With 5 people and 3 of them down you have to do something while with 10people a certain group would just stay DPS.

[Jibjub]

Downed state is the worst. THE WORST!

[Maarius]

Downed state is the worst. THE WORST!

Personally I love it, the whole situation changes and those mindless DPS-guys have to react - even if they don't like it

[Durzlla]

Downed state is the worst. THE WORST!

I love downed state... and a lot of people are like "Oh but it's stupid that you don't die when your healthbar runs out!" well it's clearly not a sign of your physical state but more of a, they get you on the back foot sort of thing and you need to get yourself back on your feet IE: killing an enemy gives you the momentum to jump back up and keep fighting or you are left alone long enough to get back up. Because after all, you run out of health bar 4 times and you auto die.

[InfiniteRetro]

Downed state is the worst. THE WORST!

down state is a pathetic mechanic to pander to the babies who hate to die. even though its a useless mechanic anyway because its getting around needing a healer by making everyone responsible to be just that. and if you ignore it you get the whiny morons crying that you didnt rez them. this aint gear of war, its an mmo rpg. kneeling next to someone and they miraculously come back to life with NO reason why makes as much sense as a water breather being strapped to your face as soon as you go under the water. (i do love those immersion breaking moments with no clarity as to why)

raids? you mean if they put walls around big giant dragons that anchor to one spot and we zerg them to death? or just increase a dungeon to being 5 times as big but doing the same stupid thing, waypoint running back to said-boss to simply zerg away till the end.

with no trinity, or to be more blunt, no LOGICAL and NORMAL class roles except these watered down sad sack versions they have now, raids would be, well, you may as well just drop players in a big round room with an enemy and go RAID!

[Maarius]

-snip-

I wondered why I put you on ignore,... read your post and now I know still here after a good year of trolling, hm?

[Deleted]

well i must agree that some dungeons in Gw2 is kinda boring but i like what their doing with fractals and if they ever would make raids then they need to do it in a way that would work without the trinity and still be fun and hard not just drop a chunk of hp on the boss and call it a raid.

[InfiniteRetro]

I wondered why I put you on ignore,... read your post and now I know still here after a good year of trolling, hm?

you put another man on ignore over a videogame? thats sensitive. either way im right. anet dont have the first clue about dungeons, let alone raids. and downed mechanic was a console kiddy addition. no other mmo has it, or would have it because its stupid.

[Deleted]

you put another man on ignore over a videogame? thats sensitive. either way im right. anet dont have the first clue about dungeons, let alone raids. and downed mechanic was a console kiddy addition. no other mmo has it, or would have it because its stupid.

i agree with dungeons being boring though fractals were an improvement and they are trying something different with no trinity and Downed system and obv they NEED to keep working on making dungeons more fun


Sorry for my bad english

[androidftw]

Raids i'm not sure if it would be a good idea we already have massive group events. They just need to make them a bit harder and require certain strategy to get them down.
I found the dungeons a bit disappointing at first but when i started the explorer modes, i started enjoying them and ofc fractals is a major improvement over them and hopefully many good things are to come.

Downed state? if they remove this, i will probably quit this game. This feature encourages team work and obvious has played a big part in making GW2 community such a friendly and helpful place to be in. I am amazed at how friendly and polite people are as compared to on wow. But i do believe downed state should be disabled in PvP.

[Deleted]

I've gotta be honest, there's a part of me that does long for raids in GW2, but I don't think it would work.

I think to add mechanics where you need 15+ co-ordinated friends to beat, the whole game would have to change.

Dungeons to not require co-ordination, it's every man for himself. Raids would simply be dungeons on a larger scale. Since there is no trinity, there is no relying on different people to perform different roles for different mechanics. It'd simply be a long fight of running through your rotation and dodge rolling at the correct time. So if we're talking about simply making instances that take 10, 15, 20, whatever people instead of 5 people - I think that's perfectly doable and we might even see it in the future but it's not going to satisfy the need for any sort of competitive and organised, co-ordinated raiding system as seen in other MMOs.

I personally enjoyed dungeons a lot at the start, and I still would, with the right people - but dungeons for me in GW2 are simply doing very similar content to levelling/world bosses, but with a group of people that I enjoy playing with. I'm still looking out for myself. Therefore, pugs aren't as fun, since I'm enjoying the group and not really the gameplay.

[Maarius]

Dungeons to not require co-ordination, it's every man for himself.

I personally enjoyed dungeons a lot at the start, and I still would, with the right people - but dungeons for me in GW2 are simply doing very similar content to levelling/world bosses, but with a group of people that I enjoy playing with. I'm still looking out for myself. Therefore, pugs aren't as fun, since I'm enjoying the group and not really the gameplay.

I wonder how you can say that, I made a quite contrary experience, even with pugs. Dungeons where you have to seperate bosses (some guys use stones/knock back skills) while others DPS and ress. Dungeons where some people stand on platforms and trying to survive (at best with someone who defends those b.c. they need not move) while others have to do something. Dungeons where you coordinate cripples in order to save some NPCs.

Well I agree that most of those mechanics can be simplyfied with good gear, but it's not an issue with mechanics but with too good gear available. It's a problem with scaling too. Yes, you scale down to a lv.35 explorable dungeon, but not ENOUGH imho.

+ I had some great runs with the last 3 pugs here + made some new friends. I wonder if people here in Europe are more pleasant to play with, reading about bad pug-experiences; well honestly, I doubt it.

[kelevandros]

Personally I woudn't want raids in the game because I don't want to deal (again) with the hassle of the management and time effort they need. Nevertheless I don't see trinity per se to be an actual hindrance to larger group instances if one is really creative and has resources. I would fathom this could be achieved by splitting an encounter into different things people should do that do not have to necessarily be fighting at all. For example 3 people need to fight a boss and 2 need to take care of adds pouring from a pair of gates while 5 others need to run over two (moving?) jumping puzzles so that they get to a specific place to activate levers that drop down the gates from where more adds are coming and a flood of toxic water coming into the room
As far as the downed state is concerned, I find it exceptionally intelligent as a mechanic (if only the engineer downed state was a good one though). It makes it possible to put a buffer for less competent players to be saved while allowing for a greater chance to use hard hitting but avoidable mechanics. It also reminds me of good old pen and paper rpgs where if you went at 0 health points you sort of fell down, and your comrades could come and save you from death (although of couse death there was a more harsh concept than in an mmo).

[InfiniteRetro]

i agree with dungeons being boring though fractals were an improvement and they are trying something different with no trinity and Downed system and obv they NEED to keep working on making dungeons more fun


Sorry for my bad english

anet need to just bring back the professions/classes they had in gw1. there was NOTHING wrong with having dedicated healers or protection professions, or tanking type like the minion bombers or spirit spammers. anet became so fucking paranoid and anti-wow that they sacrificed their OWN original design to be the stale dead fish piece of garbage gw2 is.

there is no comparison, gw1 stomps gw2 in terms of diversity, fun and 'play your own way'. does anyone REALLY care THAT much that if anet had monks, ritualists etc in gw2 that they wouldnt have bothered buying it?