Look, I'm just saying what my particular gear level is offering and explaining my particular dilemma. No need to be a jerk-wagon.
I'll need to check recount again but last time I did so Hammer of Wrath was not a star player and only doing the same damage range of CS and Judgment.
If you want to be coddled and looking for sugary rainbows. Sorry I don't post that kinda crap I tell you how it should be working. If that doesn't agree then check your shit.
---------- Post added 2012-12-15 at 05:53 PM ----------
I guess not tunneling is hard though for some people? or the raid executing the fight properly
And do you raid 10 or 25? From what I understand 25 is a bit friendlier, but let's go ahead and cover the fights shall we? (BTW, I raid 10 when we do it, on holiday hiatus and my guild is extremely bad.)
So Stone Guard, getting chained to a healer or ranged will come damn close to killing you consistently. Also staying out of pools that drop in melee and mines, all of which tend to cause more problems in melee than for ranged.
Feng, tank fails on the absorb and you've got epicenter that is going to cause more damage to melee than ranged, Resonance will also cause more damage to grouped melee.
Gara is about equal.
Spirit Kings I'd agree that it's very melee friendly.
Elegon, yes, running out of melee to clear your charges of Overcharged is extremely melee friendly.
Will of the Emperor, this one is about equal but a lot of it depends on what role you've been assigned.
So at least 1/2 the fights in the first raid have mechanics that punish melee harder than ranged.
I'd say that's melee unfriendly. Not a big deal, just how it is and in general DPS should even out a bit because of cast times and uptime on bosses.
Sorry you're having a bad day, but if you'd like to pick a fight on the Internet please just keep going. I really don't have time to deal with your inflated ego over a game.
oh yes elegon is so melee unfriendly. Running out as you kill orbs is just so terrible.
Let me break it down for you.
1. Stone guard, Run tiles or faceroll double bosses. Make ranged move their ass. That is anti ranged not anti melee
2.Feng Sit on boss zzzzzzz super easy
3. Garajal, as close to patchwerk you will ever see. But i guess 125k dps is melee unfriendly
4. Spirit kings, movement, it's everyone unfriendly STOP DPSING SHIELDS.
5. Elegon is ULTRA MELEE + ret friendly, % damage taken AMGGGGG wings
6. Will emps Melee friendly, ret either solo tanks and soaks strength sparks or does 100 million damage to the boss with rogues stomping the ranged
7. Zor lok, You can dps attuneation if you aren't slow and actually notice the patterns. Melee friendly, P3 heroic is AMGZKBLARRGG for everyone but we have bubble so it's ret friendly too
8. Blade lord, Ultra ret and melee friendly
9. Garalon LEGS BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN melee/ret friendly
10. Wind lord, No wind bombs % damage taken boss that ret > everyone on. Ret/melee friendly
11. Amber shaper, we don't have to move oozes closer, melee friendly LOL ranged.
12. Empress Heroic. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ AFK JUST DPS LOL MELEE EZMODE
13. Protectors, Melee ez mode. H:elite will be aids because kaolans massive zone makes him a dick, but it's overtuned anyhow so who cares.
14. Tsulong, MY LOINS. simple fight, try to get breathed on and those eternal flame and Execution on boss for super goodness healing
15. Lei shie, AFK BURN. the only melee unfriendly thing is we have no aoe to search for her in hide.
16. Sha of fear. ranged friendly because moving from all that shit flying at you is totally not a dps loss.
There the entire tier from a 16H 25 perspective.
Melee is not hard, people said T11 was melee unfriendly too. It wasn't
Also don't judge 25heroic if you can't even do them since you're stuck in 10man. I can actually run both when we don't have time to finish MSV or HoF from 25 progression and 10man is laughable in comparison. Not 10 man bashing but my experience is that it is infact easier because i have actually DONE both. 10man players however... have no comparison.
There's (I think) 2 places in the entire expansion it can see some use... 2nd pull of Trash in MV, becomes utterly useless after 8 seconds due to AE protection (Hunters and DKs laugh and roll their D***s on they keyboard at this) ..and about 3-4 pulls in HoF (the weak packs without aggro table).
I wish they'd just remove it from the game, it feels outdated and unnatural.
Instead allow for HotR to spread/refresh Censure, it would make the Seal consistent with how Insight and Justice operate and buff our 2nd hand AoE without messing or re-scaling any other abilities.
As powerful as a 'Censure Spread' could be, so was Serpent Sting with Serpent Spread, and still they doubled it's damage out of nowhere.
Last edited by Veliane; 2012-12-15 at 09:54 PM.
The main reason why ret paladins are doing "good" overall in this tier is because of all the gimmick fight have increased damage done or taken by a % which makes our mastery double dip. Take away that and ret will fall flat, I can't guarantee it but my gut feeling is that ret is going to need a massive buff when the next tier comes.
First of all our 4set bonus is a major reason to ret's "power" atm, unless things change I see myself wearing T14 4set for the majority of T15 whenever that comes... espeacially with the valor itemlevel upgrades...
While we're here. Is sanct wrath definitely the one to shoot for? I'm rather enjoy HA in that tier. Wrath + HA requires about 5 secs delay on wrath to line up and the 2 together seems very strong.
Originally Posted by BoubouilleOriginally Posted by xxAkirhaxx
1. One less keybind. This ties into the hassle of having to Wings+ ES , then use HA. A lot of fatfingering and latency could happen here. On the other hand with SW I just use ES instead of a filler between hammers. Usually that brings me down 1 hp so I'll be using TV@ 4HP sometimes for the duration of SW.
2. No timer worries with Guardian.
3. If shit happens and I need to get out of melee range during cooldowns I don't suffer the same way I would with HA. Contrary , I can still throw hammers like a boss in between judgment or exo. I feel like a range machine gun at times .
"...and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
But why do you, who are playing in a semi-hardcore guild (that reaches the heroics fights either ovegeared or after couple of small yet relevant nerfs), have to comment on a raid format that you haven't played yourself? How can you make such a strong opinion about something you don't really know enough about? Even high level guilds competing for world firsts have stopped comparing 10/25 because it's impossible, even for them, to make a fair estimaton of everything required of the encounters when they're progressing on them.
I have something to add to the actual discussion here.
I think we all can agree that Ret does good on fights where we can stay glued on the same target. However I see no argument for it beating other melee classes when theres cleaving, AoE or just target siwtching. Now if we move on to comparing to the ranged classes that beat Ret on single target already and compare how they can instantly switch to adds as well as provide better damage I just can't agree that we are that good and useful at all this tier.
Bonkura considering I've been playing the class and raiding before you even knew about the game I'd rather you not speak for me when you simply have no goddamn idea half the time and just make excuses for mediocre retribution play. I do know how raiding at a world first level goes because I've done it. Requital has done it. Tons of goddamn rets have done it. And in the end it's the same thing. Time investment, there you go. That is the difference between rank 1 and rank 30 region guilds. Time
Hopefully one day you can gain enough experience in ret to where I'll throw my views and facts on the class away and take advice and opinions from people who make excuses for poor play. Problem is i'd have to stop playing Retribution to let anyone else become the authority on it which isn't really something I'm planning anytime until maybe Tier 20. Shucks!
It's at that level of play his concerns are valid. Hell, it's not even that level of play that it's like that. It's any guild with aspirations of top ranks. It doesn't matter how good you are if your raid leaders philosophy is to optimize his raid for success at any cost. Since you can bet there's somebody just like you or better that plays that ideal class.
So what I'm saying is it doesn't matter what YOU think of ret even if you're the "authority on ret". It's what those raid leaders see on the meters for that role. They don't care about rank #1 ret paladin in the world when they could get rank 50 frost dk and do better.
Last edited by Riptide; 2012-12-16 at 08:43 PM.
Everytime Anaxie posts an epic rant I get the biggest nerd boner ever.