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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    Ironically. So basically, the way that they're going to "fix" PVP is by nerfing healers and offhealers, but forgetting about the classes that can't actually heal, with one of those being a pivot of complaints since expansion launch.

    "LOGIC"
    I've unsubbed for the last time. I can't handle this thoughtless moronic changes. I logged in and now im healing for 26k glyphed healing as enhance who have to trade huge damage for heals.

  2. #82
    Jeez...what reason is there to play a healer or hybrid now. Ret is basically useless (well, moreso than before). Haven't tested on my shaman yet but I'm dreading what I'll see. I feel my mage calling me...
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  3. #83
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    I enjoy how hybrids are crying about how useless they'll be without their overpowered healing...
    Remind me of how pure dps can't heal whenever they feel like please

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    I enjoy how hybrids are crying about how useless they'll be without their overpowered healing...
    Remind me of how pure dps can't heal whenever they feel like please
    nearly three times as many warlocks as rets in wirbelsturm. ret is clearly overpowered.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    I enjoy how hybrids are crying about how useless they'll be without their overpowered healing...
    Remind me of how pure dps can't heal whenever they feel like please
    I... I have nothing to say. This post is literally too stupid to comment on.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    nearly three times as many warlocks as rets in wirbelsturm. ret is clearly overpowered.
    So you're comparing an entire class with one spec. I'm betting there's three times as many paladins as warlocks at high ratings as well, if not a lot more.

  7. #87
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    I enjoy how hybrids are crying about how useless they'll be without their overpowered healing...
    Remind me of how pure dps can't heal whenever they feel like please
    It feels like a waste using holy power for self heal while warlocks can go back to 100% in like two swift cds..
    OP spells at Ashran? Based on faction population? Yes, WODs gonna be the most awesome expansion ever! Propably gonna hit under 4 million sub mark.

  8. #88
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturetauren View Post
    It feels like a waste using holy power for self heal while warlocks can go back to 100% in like two swift cds..
    Healthstone + dark regeneration are both on a 2min cooldown, and it's only 95%; over 12sec.
    On a side note, do ret paladins use 10% of their hp when they need to cc, or use 15% of their health to restore about 20% mana? I think not... Warlocks are a little exception, having more healing than other pures because they have spells with a hp-cost.

    Also, as mentioned already, COOLDOWN, pures can't spam heals on themselves like hybrids can. Before they nerfed PvP power and healing, a shaman, druid or priest would heal more with a single heal than most pures could by using a cooldown, which on a side note, could only be used on themselves....

    nearly three times as many warlocks as rets in wirbelsturm. ret is clearly overpowered.
    You compare a whole class to a single spec, but since I'm so nice I decided to check and there happen to be twice as many paladins then warlocks on that battlegroup.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2012-12-13 at 09:54 AM.

  9. #89
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    As im mostly only bging or world pvping i would like to trade my selfheal for a lay on hands on a 1 min 45 sec CD healing me 100% over 15 seconds.

    Wouldnt have to worry wasting 128328138 gcds and lose tons of dps because i have to heal myself.
    OP spells at Ashran? Based on faction population? Yes, WODs gonna be the most awesome expansion ever! Propably gonna hit under 4 million sub mark.

  10. #90
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturetauren View Post
    As im mostly only bging or world pvping i would like to trade my selfheal for a lay on hands on a 1 min 45 sec CD healing me 100% over 15 seconds.

    Wouldnt have to worry wasting 128328138 gcds and lose tons of dps because i have to heal myself.
    Did I also mention it requires a talent, and a glyph?

    Also, if you want a "lay on hands" healing over 15sec, you also gotta take a 30% hpcost on your stun ( cooldown trice as long as fear, so cost trice as high ) and greatly reduced mana regeneration , requiring to lifetap 15% of your health away for 20% mana, which is enough for like 5 spells.

    Trust me on this, if you don't get heals from someone else, you end up killing yourself as warlock because besides dark regeneration and healthstone you have close to no selfhealing... Unless you never cc ofcourse...
    Last edited by Nicola; 2012-12-13 at 10:30 AM.

  11. #91
    As an ele shaman I'll gadly trade all my retarded heals for anything warlocks got. Scratch that! I'd trade my class for a warlock. PM me plz.

  12. #92
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobzor View Post
    As an ele shaman I'll gadly trade all my retarded heals for anything warlocks got. Scratch that! I'd trade my class for a warlock. PM me plz.
    You realise warlocks are pretty much as useless in pvp as elemental/enh shamans now right?
    Not to mention that resto shamans are still, by far, the strongest healers out there, heck, I'd gladly trade my warlock for a shaman right now for PvP.

  13. #93
    The problem is that currently DPS can out DPS a healer with pure burst without any kind of CC or interrupt. The DPS can keep this up indefinitely, a healer eventually goes OOM. If Blizzard wants to stop burst healing and lower the overall healed ammount in a short time, they ought to compensate with a better mana regeneration.

  14. #94
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    The problem is that currently DPS can out DPS a healer with pure burst without any kind of CC or interrupt. The DPS can keep this up indefinitely, a healer eventually goes OOM. If Blizzard wants to stop burst healing and lower the overall healed ammount in a short time, they ought to compensate with a better mana regeneration.
    Are talking about the same game?
    A properly geared healer will never die to a single dps unless he pops cooldowns and actually interrupts and/or uses cc, and the healer doesn't even bother trying to cc or los the dps.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Are talking about the same game?
    A properly geared healer will never die to a single dps unless he pops cooldowns and actually interrupts and/or uses cc, and the healer doesn't even bother trying to cc or los the dps.
    1. Most of the time you're not facing a single DPS.

    2. Certain classes ARE able to simply burst down healers, especially if they properly utilize their abilities. Other classes might just need some time but can play an healer oom, DK says hello. All of this is assuming the DPS is somewhat good, the vast majority of DPS aren't.

    3. Even a decent DPS can eventually play an healer OOM. OOM is a needed mechanic in raids, not so much in PvP. Especially if Blizzards wants DPS to be able to ignore a healer and have two of them burst down an player of the opposite team anyway. Because if that's the case then the healer has to be able to at least somewhat compensate the burst when they pop everything and thus needs mana on par with the DPS cd recovery rate to be able to do so.
    While also being able to somewhat negate the damage they do outside of their burst phase.

  16. #96
    So the thing that happend is that every healing is nerfed ingame? pvp and pve? or only arena gets affected with it?

  17. #97
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    1. Most of the time you're not facing a single DPS.

    2. Certain classes ARE able to simply burst down healers, especially if they properly utilize their abilities. Other classes might just need some time but can play an healer oom, DK says hello. All of this is assuming the DPS is somewhat good, the vast majority of DPS aren't.

    3. Even a decent DPS can eventually play an healer OOM. OOM is a needed mechanic in raids, not so much in PvP. Especially if Blizzards wants DPS to be able to ignore a healer and have two of them burst down an player of the opposite team anyway. Because if that's the case then the healer has to be able to at least somewhat compensate the burst when they pop everything and thus needs mana on par with the DPS cd recovery rate to be able to do so.
    While also being able to somewhat negate the damage they do outside of their burst phase.
    1) Healers are not supposed to survive having multiple dps on them constantly

    2) Yes, when they use cc and interrupts so the healer can't heal himself up instantly... More specifically, the only dps that can do this are warriors, frost mages and perhaps ferals as well.

    3) In a 1v1 situation a healer will never oom against a dps that's not a mage, warrior or feral. The only reason because healers oom in arena is because they constantly have to heal themselve and their partners.

    @Henniej, only pvp is affected

  18. #98
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Did I also mention it requires a talent, and a glyph?

    Also, if you want a "lay on hands" healing over 15sec, you also gotta take a 30% hpcost on your stun ( cooldown trice as long as fear, so cost trice as high ) and greatly reduced mana regeneration , requiring to lifetap 15% of your health away for 20% mana, which is enough for like 5 spells.

    Trust me on this, if you don't get heals from someone else, you end up killing yourself as warlock because besides dark regeneration and healthstone you have close to no selfhealing... Unless you never cc ofcourse...
    I got a 89 warlock and must try it again since the last time i played it i didnt have problems with blood fears life cost because of the "passive" selfheals i got all the time.
    OP spells at Ashran? Based on faction population? Yes, WODs gonna be the most awesome expansion ever! Propably gonna hit under 4 million sub mark.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    1) Healers are not supposed to survive having multiple dps on them constantly

    2) Yes, when they use cc and interrupts so the healer can't heal himself up instantly... More specifically, the only dps that can do this are warriors, frost mages and perhaps ferals as well.

    3) In a 1v1 situation a healer will never oom against a dps that's not a mage, warrior or feral. The only reason because healers oom in arena is because they constantly have to heal themselve and their partners.

    @Henniej, only pvp is affected
    1. 2 DPS with decent coordination can pretty much insta gib another player. I did it myself timing chaosbolt + frostbomb killed an decent geared rdruid before he had a chance to react.

    2. There's a difference between surviving indefinitely and 1 or even 2 dps being able to kill a healer in two to three gcd's.

    3. There's far more classes able to OOM an healer. Most classes are able to do so if they put out decent damage. A DK for example does an awfull lot of sustained DMG far higher then a warrior or mage does but does have less burst. He will however on the long run be able to OOM most healers and eventually kill them.

  20. #100
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    1. 2 DPS with decent coordination can pretty much insta gib another player. I did it myself timing chaosbolt + frostbomb killed an decent geared rdruid before he had a chance to react.

    2. There's a difference between surviving indefinitely and 1 or even 2 dps being able to kill a healer in two to three gcd's.

    3. There's far more classes able to OOM an healer. Most classes are able to do so if they put out decent damage. A DK for example does an awfull lot of sustained DMG far higher then a warrior or mage does but does have less burst. He will however on the long run be able to OOM most healers and eventually kill them.
    1) 1k rating doesn't count, you require some heavy cc if you want to land both a chaosbolt and a frost bomb at the same time on someone that isn't braindead.

    2) Sorry to pop your bubble, but a healer dying in 3 gcds to 2 dps is perfectly fine when they pop cooldowns. You have a team and defensive cooldowns for a reason, no?
    Nonetheless, the chances of a healer dying in 3 gcd to 2 dps are stupidly low, even when the healer doesn't pop cooldowns.

    3) When talking 1v1, sustained damage does not OOM healers, since they can survive with their cheaper heals. A death knight will never kill a healer in a 1v1 situation situation with sustained damage, his only chance is to pop everything at once and hoping for the best.
    When talking about 3v3, healers OOM because they need to heal 3 people instead of 1, but then again, burst will OOM a healer much faster than sustained damage...

    I got a 89 warlock and must try it again since the last time i played it i didnt have problems with blood fears life cost because of the "passive" selfheals i got all the time.
    What passive selfheals are we talking about?
    From what I know, warlocks don't have any passive selfhealing at all unless they are out of combat, and not in arena.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2012-12-13 at 04:16 PM.

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