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  1. #101
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    What passive selfheals are we talking about?
    From what I know, warlocks don't have any passive selfhealing at all unless they are out of combat, and not in arena.
    I didnt mean passive, i said "passive" as = theres some skills that you always have on your target that heals you. Its still in the game right?
    OP spells at Ashran? Based on faction population? Yes, WODs gonna be the most awesome expansion ever! Propably gonna hit under 4 million sub mark.

  2. #102
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturetauren View Post
    I didnt mean passive, i said "passive" as = theres some skills that you always have on your target that heals you. Its still in the game right?
    You mean that glyph that heals you for 20% of the damage corruption/immolate does... That's like what, 500hps? Not even worth taking the glyph for PvP.
    If you mean soul leech, it heals you for 10% of the damage you do from direct damaging spells ( no dots that is), it means you don't have dark regeneration so noone takes it for PvP...

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    1) 1k rating doesn't count, you require some heavy cc if you want to land both a chaosbolt and a frost bomb at the same time on someone that isn't braindead.

    2) Sorry to pop your bubble, but a healer dying in 3 gcds to 2 dps is perfectly fine when they pop cooldowns. You have a team and defensive cooldowns for a reason, no?
    Nonetheless, the chances of a healer dying in 3 gcd to 2 dps are stupidly low, even when the healer doesn't pop cooldowns.

    3) When talking 1v1, sustained damage does not OOM healers, since they can survive with their cheaper heals. A death knight will never kill a healer in a 1v1 situation situation with sustained damage, his only chance is to pop everything at once and hoping for the best.
    When talking about 3v3, healers OOM because they need to heal 3 people instead of 1, but then again, burst will OOM a healer much faster than sustained damage...



    What passive selfheals are we talking about?
    From what I know, warlocks don't have any passive selfhealing at all unless they are out of combat, and not in arena.
    A healer dying to 3 global cooldowns is perfectly fine? what are you smoking? And btw, you have those defensive cds to use when your teammates can't help you. There is something called cc in this game.

  4. #104
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    A healer dying to 3 global cooldowns is perfectly fine? what are you smoking? And btw, you have those defensive cds to use when your teammates can't help you. There is something called cc in this game.
    cc requires a global cooldown, no?
    Did you also read the line where I said the chance of it happening is just stupidly low? If you don't win the lottery, it just doesn't happen.

  5. #105
    It happened in even 2 globals, I doubt that warriors will do low burst after the nerf.

    Cc requires a global and? are you popping your cds to cc someone?

  6. #106
    Why do people cry about second wind so much, maybe not popping cooldowns at start would help.
    also main reason you cant seem to kill a secondwind warrior is perhaps cause they usually use it in combination with either shieldwall or dbts, and def stance.
    Which is their standard ( OH SHIT HES TRYIN TO KILL ME ) reaction, its where you cc him , and switch.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    cc requires a global cooldown, no?
    Did you also read the line where I said the chance of it happening is just stupidly low? If you don't win the lottery, it just doesn't happen.
    Not all cc is on the gcd. Deep freeze being #1 also spriest slience, lock counter spell. Might be some others. I'm not sure.

  8. #108
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highmoon7 View Post
    Not all cc is on the gcd. Deep freeze being #1 also spriest slience, lock counter spell. Might be some others. I'm not sure.
    So a stun and 2 blanket silences that is... Frost mages require some setup if they want to deal massive damage in such a little timeframe, spriests burst is from a DoT and warlock burst is extremely easy to avoid, because it takes to cast a chaosbolt...
    Also, silences are the lot less dangerous in comparisation to stuns for healers since they still have the ability to freely move around and abuse LoS...

    So like I said, the chances that you'll die in 2-3 gcd from 2 dps as a healer is stupidly low. You really need something stupid such as 2 warriors popping their "oneshot" macros on you at the same time.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    1) 1k rating doesn't count, you require some heavy cc if you want to land both a chaosbolt and a frost bomb at the same time on someone that isn't braindead.

    2) Sorry to pop your bubble, but a healer dying in 3 gcds to 2 dps is perfectly fine when they pop cooldowns. You have a team and defensive cooldowns for a reason, no?
    Nonetheless, the chances of a healer dying in 3 gcd to 2 dps are stupidly low, even when the healer doesn't pop cooldowns.

    3) When talking 1v1, sustained damage does not OOM healers, since they can survive with their cheaper heals. A death knight will never kill a healer in a 1v1 situation situation with sustained damage, his only chance is to pop everything at once and hoping for the best.
    When talking about 3v3, healers OOM because they need to heal 3 people instead of 1, but then again, burst will OOM a healer much faster than sustained damage...
    1. You need fewer drugs, they're doing you no good. Landing a chaosbolt + frostbomb isn't that hard at all. You simply must not allow the enemy time to dispell the frost bomb before the chaosbolt hits. Stop trying to make it out to be hard to deal damage, it really isn't. DPS is the most simple thing in WoW.

    2. No it isn't fine, no it isn't low. I saw it happen to our discipline priest, and if you're talking about PvP then he made Hero of the Horde last season. He didn't even get to react before he died, through pain sub.

    3. You don't seem to know any decent DK's. :|

  10. #110
    can we vote ghostcrawler off the island yet?

  11. #111
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    1. You need fewer drugs, they're doing you no good. Landing a chaosbolt + frostbomb isn't that hard at all. You simply must not allow the enemy time to dispell the frost bomb before the chaosbolt hits. Stop trying to make it out to be hard to deal damage, it really isn't. DPS is the most simple thing in WoW.

    2. No it isn't fine, no it isn't low. I saw it happen to our discipline priest, and if you're talking about PvP then he made Hero of the Horde last season. He didn't even get to react before he died, through pain sub.

    3. You don't seem to know any decent DK's. :|
    1) Good luck with having a frostbomb, with cooldowns, not being dispelled for 6 seconds and casting a 3 sec chaosbolt with cooldows on top of that... It just doesn't happen unless you play at 1k rating. A healer will do whatever he can to dispel that frostbomb and the rest of his team will do whatever they can to prevent the warlock with darksoul from casting that chaosbolt...
    Honestly, the fact you think it's easy to land a chaosbolt says enough.

    2) Yeah disc priests, weren't those very underpowered in PvP? Also, are we actually talking about arena or did that just happen while he was being 1v2 in a random battleground, because it just doesn't happen in arena.


    3) I'm a season 1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11 gladiator and hero of the horde in season 9 and 10, I'm fairly sure I know plenty of good death knights.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    PvP: The Battle Fatigue healing reduction debuff has been increased to 30% (was 15%).
    I'm not sure how much PvP Power healers are getting, but you now need about 42% PvP Power to get back to non-PvP healing, up from 17.6%.
    That's not the whole picture though. HPs are more effective due to resilience so even with 0 PvP power and 0 PvP Resilience, you're "effective" healing is already higher than in PvE:
    70% healing / 60% damage taken = 16% more effective.

    PvP Power only increases this effect. Add in gear (and my gear isn't great by any stretch of the imagination, mostly unupgraded 458s with no PvP weapon):
    70% healing * 125% healing / 41% damage taken = 113% more effective.


    That doesn't negate other people's point in the thread that perhaps burst is too powerful or other balancing concerns.

  13. #113
    i honestly dont get the change.

    "burst is too strong"

    "cc is too strong"

    so they nerf healing which MAGNIFIES the burst problem.

    I didnt think ghostcrawler, or any of the devs, were this clueless. how does this at all remedy the situation?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 08:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    so class with some of the most problematic self healing and highest damage reduction remains un nerfed, but specs that rely almost entirely on non percentage based heals for survivability and have next to no passive damage reduction are nerfed.

    thats balance people.
    second wind OP? better nerf ret, enhance, and ferals.

  14. #114
    Still a good change, no more invincible healers, standing there doing nothing but healing themselves and the entire BG team without any consequences is awesome. Watching BGs go from 70% healers to almost none cracks me up..My druid and shaman are doing just fine btw, maybe it's a L2P thing for the rest of you lol.
    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species.

  15. #115
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    i honestly dont get the change.

    "burst is too strong"

    "cc is too strong"

    so they nerf healing which MAGNIFIES the burst problem.

    I didnt think ghostcrawler, or any of the devs, were this clueless. how does this at all remedy the situation?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 08:36 AM ----------



    second wind OP? better nerf ret, enhance, and ferals.
    Healers get nerfed so classes without ridiculous burst get a chance to actually kill healers, and also to reduce hybrid healing since it was simply to strong.
    When healing is reduced, they can start reducing burst, since stupid amounts of burst are no longer needed to kill a healer, and in addition to that they can also reduce the amount of cc going on when that is done.

    If they'd reduce cc first, the only way to kill a healer would be with massive burst, making it impossible for classes with "normal to low" burst to kill a healer.
    If they'd reduce burst first, you'd need a crapton of cc to bring a healer down, but since there already is a crapton of cc going on, it will again be near impossible to kill a healer.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    1) Good luck with having a frostbomb, with cooldowns, not being dispelled for 6 seconds and casting a 3 sec chaosbolt with cooldows on top of that... It just doesn't happen unless you play at 1k rating. A healer will do whatever he can to dispel that frostbomb and the rest of his team will do whatever they can to prevent the warlock with darksoul from casting that chaosbolt...
    Honestly, the fact you think it's easy to land a chaosbolt says enough.
    Because obviously you're going to let that frostbomb explode on it's own instead of putting it up at the same time the chaosbolt goes of then immediatly throwing the pet nova and detonating it hoping to either be faster then the healer can register it and react or that his dispell is still on cd. Saying all of that takes 6+ seconds is just plain wrong. The biggest problem is getting the chaosbolt of and that's far from impossible.
    2) Yeah disc priests, weren't those very underpowered in PvP? Also, are we actually talking about arena or did that just happen while he was being 1v2 in a random battleground, because it just doesn't happen in arena.
    He was playing 3on3. They swapped, popped CD's and curb stomped him through pain sub and shield before his mates could get them off him.
    3) I'm a season 1, 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11 gladiator and hero of the horde in season 9 and 10, I'm fairly sure I know plenty of good death knights.
    Impressive, link to your char?

  17. #117
    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by Baene55 View Post
    Still a good change, no more invincible healers, standing there doing nothing but healing themselves and the entire BG team without any consequences is awesome. Watching BGs go from 70% healers to almost none cracks me up..My druid and shaman are doing just fine btw, maybe it's a L2P thing for the rest of you lol.
    Yes, a nerf to healing is an obvious l2p issuue.

    To most healers, including myself, the change barely affects me at all. No healer was invincible, if they were then the dps on your team are a bunch if idiots or VERY undergeared. Or both.

    Another possibility is simply the healer you claim was invincible was just that much better then the other teams damage dealers.
    Last edited by Theholypally; 2012-12-14 at 06:58 PM.

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  18. #118
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Because obviously you're going to let that frostbomb explode on it's own instead of putting it up at the same time the chaosbolt goes of then immediatly throwing the pet nova and detonating it hoping to either be faster then the healer can register it and react or that his dispell is still on cd. Saying all of that takes 6+ seconds is just plain wrong. The biggest problem is getting the chaosbolt of and that's far from impossible.

    He was playing 3on3. They swapped, popped CD's and curb stomped him through pain sub and shield before his mates could get them off him.

    Impressive, link to your char?
    Le armory

    Honestly, I cba to go on with this argument, you simply aren't going to have a frost bomb and a chaosbolt land on a healer on the same time unless he's cc'ed for a long time and his partners are idiots...

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Yes, a nerf to healing is an obvious l2p issuue.

    To most healers, including myself, the change barely affects me at all. No healer was invincible, if they were then the dps on your team are a bunch if idiots or VERY undergeared. Or both.

    Another possibility is simply the healer you claim was invincible was just that much better then the other teams damage dealers.
    Or healing was so stupidly OP that it required no effort to play and that's why BGs were filled with healers. Not so much anymore...lol
    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Dânce View Post
    Burst and cc are out of control, I have an idea, lets nerf healing! Healing should be the last thing to be hit with the nerf bat until cc and burst are fixed. Bring those two things under control THEN nerf healing accordingly.
    LOL. Favorite quote here. Yeah I really fear my comp of Mage Warrior Druid is in trouble; since CC is still running rampant, match ups like God Comp will come down to they can CC more than us and neither of us can outheal damage.

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