"Do not only practice your art, but force yourself into its secrets, for it and knowledge can raise men to the divine." -- Ludwig Van Beethoven
As the words of one of our great Generals war is hell and it cant be any clearer.
Sunreavers made a choice to help Garrosh.Now they will have answer for there crimes.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things.
The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."
-John Stuart Mill
"Chaos boils in my veins."
Since we all know that garrosh is going to be some sort of sha-infested superbaddie at the end of pandaria, I'd like to tell you a few things about The Horde.
The current horde which is lead by garrosh, is verily wrong in pretty much everything, the horde is being led like a warmachine, which it is not supposed to be. Garrosh is singlehandledly breaking the horde, the Taurens, Trolls, Forsaken pretty much want nothing to do with "garrosh's horde". the only reason the blood elves support him is because they are pretty much forced to.
Youtube Chan : http://www.youtube.com/user/eqbobyboucher
Armory : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Odina/advanced
Oh look, yet another "[insert my faction] is not bad, BOTH are bad" response. Well, facts say otherwise. You're welcome to list atrocities of Alliance though.
---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 12:06 AM ----------
I didn't see anything about "sha-infested" and, honestly, I prefer to fight against his own will, not to cheapen victory with some "oh, but he was controlled" shit.
The list is very short, but there were a few instances
The near genocide on Kael and his men
Daelins invasion, with the goal to wipe out the Orcs, which reignited old hatreds.
The full extermination of the Shatterspear tribe
Taurajo
Those are the only noteworthy ones, the horde committed significantly more atrocities.
The Alliance is morally more akin to our modern standards, though they are hardly the epitome of good.
Can you cite exactly where Anasterian says directly he hated the Alliance? (of course subjective theories based on unfounded facts barely related with Anasterian himself are not valid).
Also remember that Anasterian had no absolute control of the elven society: the king was subject by the Council of Silvermoon, where there was already a large group of radical elves too selfish and proud to trust in other "lesser" races (those would later proclaim themselves as Sin'dorei). It was these radical elves who urged the king to limit the relations with humans.
In fact, what it is registered are the numerous cordial meetings which Anasterian himself kept with the ancestors of King Terenas, most likely indicating a relationship of friendship between the two nations. Moreover, the state of Dalaran is the physical and living proof that humans and high elves are bonded amicably for generations, and that their relationship is not limited to eventual formal alliances of convenience.
The Alliance disbanded? When? Now is when all the credibility of your words is gone...
Even in the hypothetical case that Anasterian was a racist who hated all other races and especially humans above all, what is certain is that if Anasterian was alive today, he'd be supremely disgusted for the Blood Elves' acts, he would disowned his own son and would be part of Vereesa and the remaining authentic Quel'dorei. He never would ally with orcs, trolls or undead monsters, and of course he had detested everything that has to do with being carried away by the thirst for magic and the vile magic consumption. Do not forget! Anasterian was a Quel'dorei, not a Sin'dorei.
The Sin'dorei already took hold of Silvermoon, we will not allow them to appropriate also of the Quel'dorei heroes! (That goes for Alleria!)
In short, do not try to convince people that the high elves and humans got along badly.
Of course they would have their conflicts, but what has always prevailed between humans and high elves has been the good understanding and good relations.
You, supporters of the traitors blood elves, cannot deny the evidence of the passage of time: the past of humans and high elves are tied, in particular through the Alliance itself.
Oh please not this whole Camp Taurajo BS again. Camp Taurajo was tame, absolutely tame compared to the stuff we did while questing. Compared to most of the crimes we comitted Camp Taurajo was nothing to get even agitated because of. Just think about Silverwing Refuge alone, the Alliance actually tried to let the inhabitants of Taurajo escape but they fell prey to the wildlife, the Orcs just murdered everyone at Silverwind Refuge.
Same for about a dozen other places where often we as Horde players simply waltzed through killing everything. Remember that quest where we destroyed Nijel's point? Killing civilians is actually part of the quest.
On topic. Purge of Dalaran was justified and right. The Sunreavers haven't betrayed the Kirintor only once but several times so far and can't be trusted. You don't let such an organization exist that actively work against you in times of war and fight for pure survival. The Americans wouldn't have accepted Nazi organizations during WW II in the US either, especially not if those actively harmed them over and over again.
It does matter, it does matter a big deal. Who started it, who did what to what extend and how much of it is of great importance. By your logic the Allies would've been just as bad as the Axis. What you're doing is making up excuses for war criminals and some of the world worst slaughterers to have ever lived.
There's a difference between stealing candy and murdering a granny in cold blood just for the heck of it. Both of those have done wrong, would you argue that both should receive the same kind of punishment. Especially if the former has only done so once or twice while the second one is a serial killer?
Making distinctions IS important, it DOES matter.
Last edited by mmoc5e6c40f22c; 2012-12-12 at 08:29 PM.
If you ask me, that quote is utter bullshit and comes from a madman. I mean, jeez, just read it. So war is worth something? Seriously, what is worth having a war for? If the first war hadn't started there wouldn't ever be a war, it's that ironic. This quote goes down along with Dave Mustaine quotes like "Barack Obama plans the mass shootings to get rid of guns."
Wow, some of you people really turn this into an all-out hate debate towards the Blood Elves...
To begin with, only a SINGLE Sunreaver chose to put his loyalties to Garrosh over the Kirin Tor. Thalen Songweaver (or something along those lines). This 'Sunreaver' is the real traitor, considering he was spying in Theramore, claiming to be neutral while actually acting as the eyes of Hellscream.
Aethas Sunreaver fought so hard to get the Sin'dorei their place back in the Kirin Tor, why would he throw it all away? He believes in neutrality, besides - didn't members of the Kirin Tor, such as Rhonin go to Theramore to discuss matters regarding the HORDE having taken the Focusing Iris? Yeah, so much for neutrality. BURN THE WITCH(ES).
If you looked past your OWN side for a change, you'd also take a look at the Horde side, which have Aethas respond with the following upon asking him about the progress on behalf of Lor'themar (May be too small of an image, but regardless)
Speaking of Kael'thas, the psychotic JAINA is the one who accuses HIM of being a traitor to the Kirin Tor - while the Kirin Tor turned a blind eye upon Garithos sentencing the Blood Elves to death, having forced their hand with his own racism.
Also, while we're on about the Kirin Tor, Rhonin's good for nothing harpy of a wife. Being so compassionate about her homeland, because it involves Amani Trolls - helping Halduron who is by faction Horde. And all of a sudden, she GLADLY joins in in the bloodshed...yeah. The Sunreavers are the bad guys because of one single guy. ALL OF THEM ARE BAD, BURN THEM ALL! ... Again, look at both sides before judging.
Last edited by Solonar; 2012-12-12 at 08:51 PM.
During the Second War, Anasterian was largely unconcerned with the threat of the orcs rampaging through Lordaeron, considering it a problem that could not touch Quel'Thalas and thus not worth the high elves addressing. After the orcs joined forces with the Amani trolls (the Amani themselves ever-eager to see Quel'Thalas burn,) he was approached by Alleria Windrunner, who attempted to open his eyes to the threat. Still reluctant, the high elven king finally changed his tone when Alleria hurled an Amani head at his feet - Anasterian kicking it away and, enraged at the Amani's nerve, ordered the high elven warriors and rangers to crush them once and for all.
The high elves came to realize that the increasingly strained Alliance needed them far more than they needed it, and after a period of mutual coldness between the humans and their elven allies,[6] Anasterian resolved to officially secede his nation.
In the aftermath of the war, the high elves as a whole began to doubt the value of the Alliance. Humanity seemed to need the high elves, but had little to offer in return, especially now that a large portion of Alliance resources was allotted toward maintaining the internment camps.
At last Anasterian rescinded the high elves' allegiance to the Alliance. He stated that the humans' poor leadership had been directly responsible for the burned forests in the borderlands of Quel'Thalas.
The elves were tied to Dalaran and Dalaran alone the other human Kingdoms were of very little interest to them.You, supporters of the traitors blood elves, cannot deny the evidence of the passage of time: the past of humans and high elves are tied, in particular through the Alliance itself.
Last edited by Combatbutler; 2012-12-12 at 08:55 PM.
One of the most biased posts I've ever seen, most isn't even worth commenting on however you have quite a few misconceptions here.
Kirin Tor and neutrality, the Kirin Tor always have been a human kingdom albeit one with a fairly strong elven presence. The only really were neutral because of the nexus and lich king war. Even before that forsaken are hunting and killing them in silverpine forrest. After all of this ended the forsaken once more start to attack the Kirin Tor in Silverpine forrest and harm their efforts.
Later the Horde attacks the blut dragon flight and the Kirin Tor to steal the iris and turn it onto Theramore. A feat they're aided with by the Sunreavers.
The Kirin Tor for the longest time haven't claimed to be truly neutral, in fact seeing how the Horde never stopped their attacks on them doing so would be dumb. The problem stems from the Sunreavers being a part of the Kirin Tor who is under attack by the Horde and rather Alliance aligned working both against the Kirin Tor and the Alliance aiding the Horde in their war of extinction.
Well this is war and war isn't fair even though their are unwritten rules that you just don't break because it causes the future of the winner to look evil but to be fair about it this what Garrosh deserves and anyone stupid enough to follow his madness, the sunreavers where fools to let Garrosh use them to fight dirty...this will make it even sweeter when we dethrone his puny headed orc ass from the Horde
Minor correction the Kirin Tor were never attacked in order to get the focusing Iris. It is unknown if the sunreavers helped to get the iris, though it is hinted some of them build the manabomb, but even that is unknown Silvermoons regular magister could have built it as well.
Their only direct act of treachery in tides of war, which is evident is Thalen weakening a gate for Garrosh.
Last edited by Combatbutler; 2012-12-12 at 08:59 PM.
Neither side are bad guys, neither side are good guys. People can do horrible things for good reasons and good things for all the wrong reasons. No sane person goes around thinking they are evil. Even murderers have reasons for what they do. To assume a race or faction is inherently good or evil is to miss the point entirely.
Or, for a lighter look at it, check out Dark Legacy comic #10 - it kind of approaches the same issue
http://www.darklegacycomics.com/10.html
Wow, I just watch the alliance scenario.... how cheesy, *I used to be loyal good, now i'm turned into evuuuull because I was bettrayed.Talk about a poser emo badass. Not even close to Garrosh
What the fuck Jaina need is a long night of love with Varian and to get back in the kitchen.
Damm, the game is broken and the lore is broken, damm you Blizz