1. #1
    Brewmaster lakers01's Avatar
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    Elemental Shaman Trinkets question?

    So today I got Light of the Cosmos. I had been saving up for the new daily trinket Shock Charger Medallion and could buy it tomorrow if needed. Ask Mr. Robot tells me that LoC is better and if I pass on buying SCM I can upgrade LoC and my DMC. SO do you guys trust Ask Mr. Robot and does anyone have any info about the SCM, like internal cooldown?

  2. #2
    SCM has no internal CD as it is an on use trinket. Its CD is displayed in the tooltip. I think it was 60s. LOC has 45s internal CD but is proccing only from FS ticks which means it is not always on CD proccing.
    There was a discussion about the uptime of LOC last week or so where an upgraded alchemist stone provides more int over the time as LOC (is provides more int and the uptime of the buff overall is better).
    I would say sim it to be sure.

    You can overwrite your current trinket with SCM and test it for yourself.

    Personally LCM has a big advantage over LOC as it is an on use trinket and you can line it up with Ascendance. Everything else is pretty equal.

  3. #3
    Mr. Robot sucks at trinkets in general, and probably overvalues LotC specifically because it assumes the same uptime on a Shaman as a Warlock or other DoT class.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by thegempolice View Post
    Mr. Robot sucks at trinkets in general, and probably overvalues LotC specifically because it assumes the same uptime on a Shaman as a Warlock or other DoT class.
    If the ICD doesn't change (for each class wearing it) and as we should have Flame shock up constantly, why would it be so radically different for a lock than a shaman? I know they have more DoTs but it'll only be a matter of seconds difference (if at all) from class to class. The uptime won't be that different between any class (well, obviously not one who doesn't use DoTs at all).

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...inket-Question Have a look here and someone from AMR has posted explaining trinkets and how they rank them.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Navitas View Post
    If the ICD doesn't change (for each class wearing it) and as we should have Flame shock up constantly, why would it be so radically different for a lock than a shaman? I know they have more DoTs but it'll only be a matter of seconds difference (if at all) from class to class. The uptime won't be that different between any class (well, obviously not one who doesn't use DoTs at all).
    Go read the previous debate about trinkets from two weeks ago. Cosmos is just underwhelming for us because we have only one DoT and its slow one (3s intervals) unlike lots of others with 2s intervals. The only reasson why people in the topic linked have cosmos up there is because they expect cosmos to proc asap, which is just not gonna happen. go to totemspot, find the trinket proc breakdown and see for yourself how bad cosmos is.

  6. #6
    Hey, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. We actually model out every trinket for every class and spec. We equip the trinkets, then simulate a fight so we can get the average uptime. As stated, elemental shamans don't have the dots like an affliction lock does. And that is reflected in our trinkets.

    For example, if you look at the elemental trinket page, you'll see the average value you get from procs on LoC is 1357 int, but affliction locks get 1390 int.

    Then to rank those trinkets, we apply your stat weights to the stats on the item, and to the average amount of stat you get from procs. So as you change your stat weights, different trinkets might be suggested.
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  7. #7
    While its surprising to me that Ask Mr. Robot actually sims the trinket proccs for different specs (cool btw), it doesn't change the fact that LoC is a lot worse for us than our DOTing counterparts. I speak from experience... use it for a few fights and be infinitely frustrated when it doesnt procc during your opening at all. And since our opening is such a huge part of our dps due to our overall bursty nature, I don't really like LoC at all and suspect I'll be using the shieldwall trinket as part of my bis set.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster lakers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regorill View Post
    While its surprising to me that Ask Mr. Robot actually sims the trinket proccs for different specs (cool btw), it doesn't change the fact that LoC is a lot worse for us than our DOTing counterparts. I speak from experience... use it for a few fights and be infinitely frustrated when it doesnt procc during your opening at all. And since our opening is such a huge part of our dps due to our overall bursty nature, I don't really like LoC at all and suspect I'll be using the shieldwall trinket as part of my bis set.
    Yes thats kind of the general consensus I got. It was just odd to me that LoC was simmed that high.

  9. #9
    So I did a little research since you all mentioned that LoC still seemed too high. We updated our simulation because we did in fact have the number of dot ticks/minute too high. After looking through some WoL, we updated the number to be 24 ticks / minute, assuming 20% Haste. That update hasn't been pushed to our live site yet, but it will be soon. So a huge thank you for this thread - I love it every time I can pin down better information

    So, the results I'm showing on my local version: 1241 average int from procs on LoC (down from 1537). The SCM has a score of 5794, and LoC 5746. So they are very close, but the SCM wins with the adjustment.
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  10. #10
    Zoopercat thank you for posting I appreciate all the effort you guys put in your site and hope you continue updating it regularly with the latest info you can get your hands on.

  11. #11
    I personally like the Shieldwall trinket, although I've yet to get it. I like having control over my burst, and seeing as that's how we put ourselves on the charts, being able to pump intellect into Ascendance is fantastic. The haste is very nice as well. I used the Heroic trinket from Siege of Niuzao Temple for the longest time. I have something to work towards now, seeing as LFR EoT doesn't seem to want to drop. Hopefully will see a normal one this week. :O

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
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    Essence of Terror and DMC are BiS, aim for them!
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    Originally Posted by Lightfist
    I don't really get how Bloodlust fits Shamans...
    "I need to calm the elements, and through our sacred bond we will - wait, is that a fucking boss? I'M SO FUCKING ANGRY! I'M GOING TO KILL HIM! NO, WAIT! I'M GOING TO RAPE HIM THEN KILL HIM! WITH SPOONS! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE!"
    LOL epic signature sir

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    Essence of Terror and DMC are BiS, aim for them!
    What's the math behind this? I can understand the raw int + haste procc outweigh the stats on the Shock-Charger medallion, but how do you model the fact that SMC can be used for every ascendence (+potentially every fire elemental totem with glyph)? The ability to stack SMC with cooldowns is what really draws me to it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Regorill View Post
    What's the math behind this? I can understand the raw int + haste procc outweigh the stats on the Shock-Charger medallion, but how do you model the fact that SMC can be used for every ascendence (+potentially every fire elemental totem with glyph)? The ability to stack SMC with cooldowns is what really draws me to it.
    You account for it by running simulations that force the trinket to be used with Ascendance whenever possible, and the result is that SCM is still not better than Essence LFR, Cosmos Normal, or Zen Alchemist Stone.
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binkenstein View Post
    You account for it by running simulations that force the trinket to be used with Ascendance whenever possible, and the result is that SCM is still not better than Essence LFR, Cosmos Normal, or Zen Alchemist Stone.
    This. Also, stating again that Cosmos looks great until you actually experience it's horrendous proc rate. SCM is much better, though not better than DMC or Essence.
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