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[nekobaka]

Nothing is shoved down you throat. It IS optional. Just having the dailies there doesn't mean you have to do them. Not in the slightest. If you think them being available means you MUST do them, its probably because you are OCD and neurotic.

Just as dungeons and raids are optional and yet players who didnt like them demanded they get nerfed. Than again the grinds was so gutted to further appeal to casuals and on top of that not much content regardless of what you did.

[Alayea]

Going back to the old model where you have to progress linear through the raids from release of current expac?
That's the plan. We have older Raid Finder tiers now to provide the necessary gear.

...
...
... /wrist

[Gurbz]

Absurd. Utterly and totally absurd. Why would running both raids be required? Everything is optional NOTHING IS REQUIRED. Why are dailies optional but not raids? LFR is also "optional" and yet it presents precisely the same problem that having two seperate lock outs did.

I never said that doing the additional raids would be required. Or that 25s would be required if 10s dropped inferior loot. I only said that some players would (wrongly) feel like they were. Just like they (again wrongly) feel like dailies are required. That's a perception problem on the side of the players, not an inherent problem with the system. Sadly, everyone who has said they are required has further proven that there is a large portion of the population that needs to have their hand held by their babysitter so that they don't needlessly subject themselves to negative things for no other logical reason than because they can.

It's not conjecture to say that 2 raid formats that share loot but not a lockout means that players have the ability to get gear twice as fast as if the lockout were shared between the two formats. This would lead to players gearing up at a rate that Blizzard is not comfortable with, which is the exact reason they gave before Cata launched as to why the two formats would now share a lockout. Every solution to that problem has it's own negatives attached to it, and nobody has come up with a viable solution that addresses those negatives. Until they do, or until Blizzard dumps the two format raid system and goes with a single raid size for everyone, then we are likely stuck with the system in place now.

[Wildtree]

Another thing, back in wrath I was raiding as a 10, but after we had done our weekly 10 man run, we used to run 25's with another guild which we were fairly friendly with (plus some pugs) and had a crack at the 25 man raid. It was good fun, brought the server a bit more together because trade was always alive with 25man pugs looking to go anywhere and everywhere!

10 man = ilevel 200, 25 man = ilevel 213..
That was the difference. Generally speaking the loot chance in 10 man was higher, yet you've ran both for the doubled chance.
We have that right now too. We get LFR and normal/heroic mode. You can still raid twice, with the perspective of a rather lower and a rather higher quality item.

[nerdraaaaage]

was only a matter of time until scrubs QQ'd about frost bomb's damage... yet again, another nerf for mages. Thanks bads for not knowing how to overcome frost bombs.

[Leonard McCoy]

I never said that doing the additional raids would be required. Or that 25s would be required if 10s dropped inferior loot. I only said that some players would (wrongly) feel like they were. Just like they (again wrongly) feel like dailies are required. That's a perception problem on the side of the players, not an inherent problem with the system. Sadly, everyone who has said they are required has further proven that there is a large portion of the population that needs to have their hand held by their babysitter so that they don't needlessly subject themselves to negative things for no other logical reason than because they can.

It's not conjecture to say that 2 raid formats that share loot but not a lockout means that players have the ability to get gear twice as fast as if the lockout were shared between the two formats. This would lead to players gearing up at a rate that Blizzard is not comfortable with, which is the exact reason they gave before Cata launched as to why the two formats would now share a lockout. Every solution to that problem has it's own negatives attached to it, and nobody has come up with a viable solution that addresses those negatives. Until they do, or until Blizzard dumps the two format raid system and goes with a single raid size for everyone, then we are likely stuck with the system in place now.

And yet the situation we are in today is PRECISELY what we had during wotlk. So again the player mentality is incorrect, Blizzard caves to this and makes raids shared lock outs and then instead of caving to this yet again in mists they get behind the position that hey man everything is optional. Does that not strike you as contradictory on their part?

[Lemons]

Personally I love item upgrades. They're awesome. they let you take your favorite items and make them even better. I don't expect to completely upgrade every single piece of gear, but I'm cool with that.

[mosely]

People are just never happy. I've seen the same people whinging over being bored in Cata, say that they have no time to progress their toons in this expansion and calling it bad that they can't have full epix in just 1 reset.

I realize this is the correct spelling in some parts of the word, but I can never see it and not pronounce it in my head as though it rhymed with "hinging".

Anyway, one problem is that there existed some people who didn't complain about Cata content. If you stick around in this game long enough, eventually you will find yourself disagreeing with some of Blizzard's game design choices.

[Gruffertus]

I realize this is the correct spelling in some parts of the word, but I can never see it and not pronounce it in my head as though it rhymed with "hinging".

Hinging, as in "to hinge"? The fate of Azeroth was hinging on these mortal heroes' actions? That does rhyme with whinging.

[Susej]

can you stop putting ghostcrawlers ugly face on the front page?

Every time i refresh mmo champion and he's there i have this hard to control urge to kill people.

It might be just the fact that his god awful class design incites homicidal ideals

Or, that he's just so god damn ugly i enrages me so fully.

[Leonard McCoy]

can you stop putting ghostcrawlers ugly face on the front page?

Every time i refresh mmo champion and he's there i have this hard to control urge to kill people.

It might be just the fact that his god awful class design incites homicidal ideals

Or, that he's just so god damn ugly i enrages me so fully.

I love it honestly. It's such a meme worthy expression his face.

[bubble69]

PvP

The Battle Fatigue healing reduction debuff has been increased to 30% (was 15%).

Seriously? Disc is unplayable right now, and the burst is still way over-tuned. How about balancing the classes instead of putting a "blanket" debuff on an entire subset of the population. This "blanket" assumes all healers are created equal, which is just not the case.

So if burst is too high, why was there no "30% reduction to damage" on all classes. Because it would have been silly.

Think about the math, balance, and playability before "blanketing" groups Blizzard. This type of balancing is getting absurd.

[greyghost]

Yeah because nobody in NA/EU wants that model to return, right?

What a ridiculous argument. Forums have been flooding with requests to go back to the WotLK style of separating 10 and 25 since Cata was released, but obviously we don't want it enough somehow..?

.... from an extreme minority of players.

Just because you can get 100 people to post over and over to post-cap a thread about how much you hate that there are people who are able to get things you can get too, doesn't make it a popular request.

It was actually a large group of people who requested the feature for Korean servers. You will NEVER find that for NA/EU servers. The demographics just doesn't support such a revert of design.

[Deleted]

was only a matter of time until scrubs QQ'd about frost bomb's damage... yet again, another nerf for mages. Thanks bads for not knowing how to overcome frost bombs.

name:nerdrage

class: plays a mage


all you mages think alike ass oon as mages get nerfs you moan about it your the least nerfed class in the game with the best pvp damage and cc.

poor little mage isnt so OP anymore dnt like it reroll noob

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

And yet the situation we are in today is PRECISELY what we had during wotlk. So again the player mentality is incorrect, Blizzard caves to this and makes raids shared lock outs and then instead of caving to this yet again in mists they get behind the position that hey man everything is optional. Does that not strike you as contradictory on their part?

No, I don't find it contradictory. You are comparing two separate issues, but ignoring the real core problem, or even trying to fix the real problem. Blizzard gave a reason for the shared lock outs. Comparing dailies to doing the same raids twice a week is just silly. With your argument that things are "pretend forced on you," I could come to the conclusion that Blizzard is contradicting itself by not forcing players to complete raids on heroic before going on to the next tier or raids. Oh wait, that just sounds totally ridiculous, and I am not only reaching to prove a point, but its a horrible strawman. Lets look at the real issue. The casuals complaining and ruining things.

Now lets think of a real fix. MAKING ONE RAID CONFIGURATION. I never understood why the thought having two was acceptable or even a good idea at all. I know in Vanilla, three raid types were available in the end, and two in BC. But the difference was different raid types were confined to different raids. They should go back to this idea.

UBRS-10
ZG-20
AQruins-20
Everything else -40

Kara-10
ZQ-10
Everything else-25

Then things got silly and everything was 10/25. It may cause some disruption, but the should set the standard now. Make everything 10 man or 15 or 20 or even 25. I Personally would suggest 10 mans for my experience in the US.

[Leonard McCoy]

No, I don't find it contradictory. You are comparing two separate issues, but ignoring the real core problem, or even trying to fix the real problem. Blizzard gave a reason for the shared lock outs. Comparing dailies to doing the same raids twice a week is just silly. With your argument that things are "pretend forced on you," I could come to the conclusion that Blizzard is contradicting itself by not forcing players to complete raids on heroic before going on to the next tier or raids. Oh wait, that just sounds totally ridiculous, and I am not only reaching to prove a point, but its a horrible strawman. Lets look at the real issue. The casuals complaining and ruining things.

Now lets think of a real fix. MAKING ONE RAID CONFIGURATION. I never understood why the thought having two was acceptable or even a good idea at all. I know in Vanilla, three raid types were available in the end, and two in BC. But the difference was different raid types were confined to different raids. They should go back to this idea.

UBRS-10
ZG-20
AQruins-20
Everything else -40

Kara-10
ZQ-10
Everything else-25

Then things got silly and everything was 10/25. It may cause some disruption, but the should set the standard now. Make everything 10 man or 15 or 20 or even 25. I Personally would suggest 10 mans for my experience in the US.

God I hope Blizzard embraces your so called "real" problem and totally shoots themselves in the head. Please if your reading this GC or whoever listen to this guy. The faster you do the faster we can get past this nonsense about optional and forced and get back to making rewarding content that doesn't require me to invest my life.

[Salech]

So doing 10/25 mans was required in blizzards heads, but doing 10 man and 25 man (LFR) is optional?, i don't understand that really, it's the same except LFR is fucking easy compared to anything in this game.

Dailies and gating content is lazy and uninspiring to say the least, why not come with top class content instead of shit content that's gated to make it seems like it last longer.

[Tomana]

So doing 10/25 mans was required in blizzards heads, but doing 10 man and 25 man (LFR) is optional?, i don't understand that really, it's the same except LFR is fucking easy compared to anything in this game.

Dailies and gating content is lazy and uninspiring to say the least, why not come with top class content instead of shit content that's gated to make it seems like it last longer.

What top class content? There is only that many things you can do in an MMO. Dynamic events like in GW2? Perhaps, but at the end of the day it's just another form of quests. If you look at other MMOs, there is nothing revolutionary in any of those.

[Deleted]

That is nice for your guild and your server but not everyone has the skilled server population to handle 25m raiding anymore. On my server there is one guild, the one I'm in, that has cleared all content on normal and has any reasonable progression through heroic modes. Everyone else is struggling with normal HoF. Out of the two 10m groups that the guild fields only one has that progression.

Moving to 25m raiding would mean lowering our standards, getting worse progression, and all for the sake of 8 ilvl. You would essentially force guilds like mine to play with players that we don't want to play with. It is about choice.

There has to be a way to let people CHOOSE what content that they want to raid, with who they want to raid with, without being penalized for choosing 10m over 25m due to situations outside of their control.

I totally understand where you're coming from, however, I wasn't saying 25's should be run over 10's and if you re-read my post I was saying there shouldn't be a difference in gear between either, but some way of giving some identity to 25's such as different colour gear etc just as an idea.

I also mentioned that we pugged the 25's with another guild (as we were both not 25 raiding guilds even back then) and it wasn't so much for progression because we were doing the content as 10's, it was because we could and it was fun, and DID bring the server together (still have some friends on the list from those days, good times).

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 11:35 AM ----------

10 man = ilevel 200, 25 man = ilevel 213..
That was the difference. Generally speaking the loot chance in 10 man was higher, yet you've ran both for the doubled chance.
We have that right now too. We get LFR and normal/heroic mode. You can still raid twice, with the perspective of a rather lower and a rather higher quality item.

I know we have LFR, I don't mind that at all, if anything it's a nice addition to the game for many people and I know we can just form up and hit the LFR with the other guys, but again it all comes to choice - do the normal/hc 25 man with a nice settled pug (only a few people changing that would be grabbed from the server in trade) or doing the dumbed down version?!

I can see the reasons why we have it as it is now, but giving one playerbase the option to have seperate lockouts, and not the rest is quite poor imo.

[DOORF]

no more guilds switch horde plz....K?