Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Mages in MoP - descent of the gods

    Since launch
    -7% crit chance for firemage
    -50% combust damage
    -30% shield absorb
    -20% deepfreeze duration
    +50% cd on ring of frost
    +2sec delay for frost bomb detonation
    -50% damage of frost bomb (when detonate with fireblast glyph, aka always)

    We all know mages were good. Fire was doing very well on Pve. Frost was doing very well in pvp (not warrior or BM well, but well). And we all know mages can't be good. It's obviously an easy unfair class, to perform well would be unfair to other classes that work so hard and are so underpowered.

    Blizzard, can you please wait untill I buy some cosmetics? Because i want to be beautiful next time you !#%#k me
    Oh and for those reading the blues: PoM + Ring of Frost will be nerfed aswell.

  2. #2
    We're still leading the pack in PvE though, we have every expansion.
    (in before someone mentions Sunwell as if it was an entire expansion)

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Front Range Free Zone
    Posts
    4,262
    So, I guess Ghostcrawler isn't playing a mage anymore?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    So, I guess Ghostcrawler isn't playing a mage anymore?
    Maybe he still is and he's just becoming a better developer.


    What saves Blizzard is that they work with patches. They can release something broken and continuously try to fix their design and execution mistakes.
    Last edited by Magemaer; 2012-12-12 at 02:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Rijeka, Croatia
    Posts
    1,922
    Maybe he's playing Arcane and Frost PvE now. I'll just stand by and wait for him to start playing Arcane PvP.

    Also, if you wish to explore or discuss these accumulated changes in more depth, please do so in a peaceful, friendly and constructive manner. Raging and complaining can be done without the use of expletives directed at anyone or anything, including people who are not forum posters here. Since the last few "examples", we have a slightly low tolerance towards threads which might attract people with a overly negative attitude.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Front Range Free Zone
    Posts
    4,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    Maybe he still is and he's just becoming a better developer.
    So, Pandaria has flying pigs now?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Also, if you wish to explore or discuss these accumulated changes in more depth, please do so in a peaceful, friendly and constructive manner. Raging and complaining can be done without the use of expletives directed at anyone or anything, including people who are not forum posters here. Since the last few "examples", we have a slightly low tolerance towards threads which might attract people with a overly negative attitude.
    It's hard not having a negative attitude when your class is nerfed time over time. Sometimes nerfs are unfair, sometimes are fair; sometimes they are well done, sometimes poorly. But overall, it's always a bad experience when you play a class, you get used to how it's working, how it's performing, and bang! they change it without warning, in a quick restart, a later tell you in blues how you got rickrolled.

    I'm one of those that would prefer never being op, but to have a stable class, that won't get changed overnight.

  8. #8
    Personally I prefer having a realistic outlook on life, accepting that if Blizzard were capable of making something perfect enough to be stable from the outset then they already would.
    Waves of Nerfs and Buffs are never going to be going away, in any MMO, in any competitive game with a competent set of developers.

    I would certainly like not to have to bother changing my tactics every so often, but in a game with millions of competing factors that's really just not reasonable to expect.

  9. #9
    1) adapt, mages Will still be doing fine, this was honestly extremely op, bad mages could wreck better players with 0 skill

    2) how many dramaqueen nerf threads do you have to create?

    3) while warrior cd stacking is retarded, it's not something they can do several times every minute, Ive humiliated opponents with several frost bomb combos within a short timespan, it's not only imbalanced, it's boring and yielded better results against opponents than bm and arms could do.

    4) your argument against the nerfs are that hunters and warriors are op too? What kind of argument is that?
    Last edited by Crispin; 2012-12-12 at 03:18 PM.

  10. #10
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,953
    All evidence, to my mind, that the developers have no idea what the hell they are doing. And no, Shang, if he played a Mage of any spec he would realise how god-awful the last tier of talents are, let along how poor Arcane's mobility is.

    This is simply evidence to the fact that PvP ruins PvE; All of these changes are the result of people complaining in PvP. And the funny thing is, -none- of these things actually address the real problem, which is Deep Freeze + Shatter.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #11
    I thought the combustion worked out to be a buff on most fights ?

    also Ive only seen the Frost ring mentioned and frost bomb nerf, where did you see the other nerfs posted?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    So, I guess Ghostcrawler isn't playing a mage anymore?
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...86593140908033

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 03:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotted View Post
    I thought the combustion worked out to be a buff on most fights ?

    also Ive only seen the Frost ring mentioned and frost bomb nerf, where did you see the other nerfs posted?
    For a day and a half until they hotfixed it back to be weaker than it was before the Pyro dot change.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Front Range Free Zone
    Posts
    4,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Personally I prefer having a realistic outlook on life, accepting that if Blizzard were capable of making something perfect enough to be stable from the outset then they already would.
    Waves of Nerfs and Buffs are never going to be going away, in any MMO, in any competitive game with a competent set of developers.

    I would certainly like not to have to bother changing my tactics every so often, but in a game with millions of competing factors that's really just not reasonable to expect.
    I'm still halfway convinced of the tinfoil-hat level theory that some internal Blizzard process has concluded that the buff/nerf cycle drives subs and so they're doing it deliberately.

  14. #14
    My concern with their targeting of PoM+RoF is that the gameplay is what they wanted from the talent redesign: players combining different talents for specific results. However, the problem is that the combo here became far better than any other combo present. I think the simplest thing they could do would be to reduce the cast time of RoF a bit to make hardcasting a tactic and not a punishment, and make PoM affect single target abilities only. Removes the problem of instant RoF, without gutting the playstyle of Frost. Hell, it even makes Ice Floes more interesting of an option for PvP.

  15. #15
    All the nerf/buff stuff aside - I've been getting bored by my mage for a while now, the class seems just ... boring compared to others. The mage just has less ... style, less flavor than e.g. the Warlock. All the "emo" etc. stuff aside, at least Warlock is not bland, it's got a distinct style. The demonic etc. theme works. Compare Warlock tiers to Mage tiers, Mage stuff is just bland.

    Then there's stuff like the ability of Warlocks to cast while moving *all the fucking time*, only suffering a 30% movement speed malus whereas Mages have a whole damn talent tier dedicated to being able to cast 1 spell instantly (while moving), casting 2 spells while moving or casting 1 specific spell while moving ...
    Then there's Fire (which I love and hate, hate the RNG, like the ... flow), the most movement-compatible specc being nerfed, leaving us with the less movement-capable specc of Arcane it's just getting frustrating.

    I've been playing my mage for as long as I've been playing WoW, about 7 years now, and I never considered switching classes once (also due to the ridiculous effort I put into the character, but account-wide achievements, shared mounts, pets, titles etc. have somewhat alleviated that).
    I am considering switching classes now ... Possibly to Hunter or more likely Warlock, Shadow Priest being remotely possible. I don't play melee well, I'm just a caster at heart. All gameplay concerns of Warlocks aside (our Warlock constantly complains how boring to play the Warlock is, while topping charts easily all the time), the Warlock is just more interesting than the Mage.
    There's many aspects to this, the gear looks more interesting, the spells are more interesting (for years I've been jealous of Rain of Fire, as a Fire mage... -.-), there's stuff like the coming Scenario/Quest that'll give Locks green spellfire. There's the cool pets and different versions of pets, there's the better soloing ability due to pets, there's vastly higher amount of minor/cosmetic/*fun* glyphs.

    There's the Mage signature spell Combustion that once combined all active DoTs, which was interesting. Then it was toned down to just three or so specific DoTs. Then it got toned down to just Ignite. Then it got toned down to just half of Ignite's damage. ... What the hell is the point of Combustion now? Just duplicating half of Ignite's damage, seriously?
    There's us just getting (yeah, still complaining about that) a copy of a Shaman spell for our lvl 84 spell, Time Warp. Yes, it's nice to have. But yes, it would have been nicer to get an actually *new* spell.
    There's our damn Mirror Images *still* attacking different targets than the one we're attacking and actually *still* pulling new mobs.
    There's Frostfire Bolt, an actually nice looking spell *still* being just a second-rate spell because you actually have to glyph it to be on-par with Fireball.

    Yes, there's nice stuff like Alter Time which is actually a nice spell (which I'd like to be able to glyph, either cosmetically or for actual functionality) and the cool and powerful Frost Orb.

    But overall I just don't "feel" it anymore for my mage. The very harsh nerf in the middle of current content (deserved or not, too much or too little, it really should have come far earlier, not right in the middle of content/progress) didn't help.

    I've now recruit-a-friend-ed myself and am currently levelling a Warlock that way and I already informed my raid leader of the possibility that I might switch classes. Now I have to level the Lock to max, equip it and actually see if I can play the class well or like it.

    Unfortunately in my guilds we never had another active mage player so I couldn't talk about stuff like this - am I the only one who feels that the Mage class is just too bland?
    Yeah, I know other classes will probably chime in and complain about how I'm whining and mage is so cool, much cooler than their class. It's quite possible that every class feels like this, but maybe there's someone playing a Mage *and* a Warlock actively and can talk about this?

    I'm not exactly complaining about the PvE (don't play PvP) viability, gameplay concerns, that'll be fixed sooner or later, buffed and nerfed again, buffed and nerfed again. I'm talking more about the flavor of the class.
    Last edited by one_entity; 2012-12-13 at 06:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    make PoM affect single target abilities only.
    This would be unwise and shortsighted.

    PoM works for insta-flamestrike as well as insta-RoP for all specs (as well as many other combinations). I, for one, do not subscribe to the "nerf by proxy" ideology, that is, in order to nerf RoF you nerf PoM instead in the hope that RoF will be nerfed as well. If RoF is the problem (for the record, I don't think RoF or even PoM+RoF is a problem), then nerf RoF, not PoM.
    A much smarter move would be to turn RoF back into its "arming" version. I.e. Insta cast (or 0.5 sec cast), but takes X seconds to 'arm' itself. That way you can circumvent the whole PoM issue entirely.


    All that aside, I think the real issue right now is that Blizz seem to be blindly swinging wildly in the dark as far as it concerns the Mage class. They just don't seem to have a grasp of what is going on, leading to massive game altering changes on a weekly basis. One week they completely nerf some aspect of the Mage class, the next week they completely buff the same aspect, and the following week they completely nerf it again. It seems like they just don't know wtf is going on over there in Irvine and they are just throwing sh!t at a wall and seeing what sticks. And they are doing this so quickly that there isn't even enough time to get accurate and relevant data on the changes in the first place before the next heavy handed nerf comes into play.

    Now don't get me wrong, I am a big proponent for good well thought out changes to the class. But what has been happening recently isn't good change, its random, thoughtless change. Numbers are seemingly plucked out of thin air (50% nerf?) and applied. No thought is put into the effect of the changes until its too late and the damage is already done, leading to yet another random thoughtless change being made in order to correct the first one, which only starts the cycle again.


    All of this is an indicator of a systemic problem. There is a critical failure in how Blizz has decided to go forward with balance changes for MoP. My intuition tells me that the reason for this is that the designers themselves are overwhelmed. Couple that with the internal power/politics of the design team (which were recently highlighted by a former Blizz employee on these very forums) and you have the current state of what is going on. Random hotfix nerfs/buffs that wildly swing balance from one end of the spectrum to the other.

    It didn't take someone with advanced degrees in mathematics to tell you that the first fire nerf would make Fire end up at the bottom of the charts, but the hotfix nerf was done anyway.


    I really think Blizz has lost the plot.
    "Zom is like that ace in the hole you keep for when shit hits the fan and you need a clutch. Unleash him when the need is most dire and watch how in just a few globals all your problems fade away. Mostly because they all just got melted."
    - High Warlord Daemon, PvP Officer, rBG Lead

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    We're still leading the pack in PvE though, we have every expansion.
    (in before someone mentions Sunwell as if it was an entire expansion)
    We mages, aoe kings were stripped from aoe ages ago. Capped by spell power by aoe targets, capped on impact/inferno blast/fire blast dots spread...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    -50% combust damage
    That's inaccurate.
    With MoP Combustion tick value was 50% of ignite tick + 33% of pyroblast dot tick.
    It then changed to 100% of ignite tick and nothing from pyroblast dot. (which, lets be real, was OP as all heck)
    It then changed back to 50% of ignite tick.

    So in reality, you only "lost" from the start of MoP, the 33% of a pyroblast tick in terms of your combustion size - in other words, not that much. The critical mass change was a much larger blow to fire.
    Ideally blizzard should've made combustion ticks somewhere around 60-70% of ignite ticks, and crit mass 1.375 but whatever.

    So complain if you will, but don't over exaggerate.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    This would be unwise and shortsighted.

    All of this is an indicator of a systemic problem. There is a critical failure in how Blizz has decided to go forward with balance changes for MoP. My intuition tells me that the reason for this is that the designers themselves are overwhelmed. Couple that with the internal power/politics of the design team (which were recently highlighted by a former Blizz employee on these very forums) and you have the current state of what is going on. Random hotfix nerfs/buffs that wildly swing balance from one end of the spectrum to the other.

    It didn't take someone with advanced degrees in mathematics to tell you that the first fire nerf would make Fire end up at the bottom of the charts, but the hotfix nerf was done anyway.

    I really think Blizz has lost the plot.
    The systemic problem is that Activision Blizzard has no real reason catering to the declining subs, so more and more resources are going to Titan. Which hopefully will payoff but doesn't help us here.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    We're still leading the pack in PvE though, we have every expansion.
    (in before someone mentions Sunwell as if it was an entire expansion)
    ^This^

    Even with all the nerfs mages are still beasting the charts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •