Page 4 of 18 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
14
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    549
    I think it's more of a combination with Def Stance. 25% dmg reduction just by changing stance is way too much for a non-protection specs. They should either remove it and make it protection-only, or tone it down to 5-10% baseline and add another 15-20% on top of it as spec bonus for protection.

  2. #62
    All I can say is this: If you're having trouble with second wind, it's a personal problem. Learn how to fight warriors. Each class is different and so each class has a different strat to bring him down depending on your class/spec. Healer vs warrior should stalemate now with the changes if both play their cards right.

    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 08:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xami View Post
    I think it's more of a combination with Def Stance. 25% dmg reduction just by changing stance is way too much for a non-protection specs. They should either remove it and make it protection-only, or tone it down to 5-10% baseline and add another 15-20% on top of it as spec bonus for protection.
    This shows that you need to read up more on warriors to understand how they work. Switching to D stance means they are no longer gaining rage from auto-attacks. This cuts their potential throughput down more than the 25% damage reduction gained (ie: giving up around 50% of their damage for a 25% damage reduction). That's a fair trade that most classes don't have to make - they can keep on trucking with defensives up. You should be advocating for more trade-offs like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  3. #63
    Bloodsail Admiral Jawless Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    The last place you look
    Posts
    1,016
    ive noticed that if you're in defensive stance (and arent prot spec) you gain 1-2 rage per swing...

    you literally are starving yourself of every ability (unless you are constantly stunned, which procs the rage part of 2nd wind), apart from mortal strike, for 25% dmg reduction

    also warriors have 3 defensive cds
    shield wall (requires shield, is removed by some classes with disarms)
    rallying cry (not really defensive, just a hp boost which is gone in 1 spell/ability)
    die by the sword (can be stunned to make useless, attacks from behind cant be parried, 20% less damage from spells since you cant parry spells)

    run that by your ingame knowledge of other melee classes defensives

    Rogue: evasion, vanish, blind (can be used offensively), CR (talent), Feint (talented, not on a cd), cloak
    DKs: icebound fort, antimagic shell, dks get the short stick here but Dks know this and hopefully blizz brings them up to speed with eveyone else
    monks: Touch of Karma, zen med (best spell against caster cleaves), fort brew, sparring (glyphed this gives 15% spell deflection as well as parry), amazing escapes
    Feral: survival instincts, bear form, might of ursoc, instant cyclones (can be used offensively)
    shaman: shamanistic rage, shamans in the same boat as dks, only viable spec is resto atm but thats a problem blizz will fix
    pallys: LoH (touch of karma but instead it heals instead of absorbing), hand of freedom, hand of prot, divine shield, divine protection, aoe blind, hand of sac

    as you can see warriors have the norm when it comes to defensive cds given to melee and its only a few classes/specs which are the exception and are left behind in cds
    so complaining that warriors have too many cds is a misinformed arguement at best

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 09:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.
    thats def going in the sig
    Last edited by Jawless Jones; 2012-12-13 at 08:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiebob
    I'm still waiting on someone to tell me where all these people that suddenly care about Warrior balance were during Cataclysm when they were blow up dolls with plate armor on.
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  4. #64
    Second wind is just another addition to pvp to move the game towards burst play. Gone are the days of DoT pressure, smart healing debuff play, mana wars and 'chess' (what many players used to call pvp in BC). Now it's about lining up your cooldowns to match where the other team don't have defensive cooldowns. The tank classes have relatively minor burst defensive CD's (i know shield wall seems massive, but compared to glass cannon cds like ice block/demonic port/vanish etc. 20% dmgrreduce is nothing) to balance out in PvE (except for paladins which have a threat breaker bubble) so warrs needed another defensive ability. DK's are a perfect example of a class which can't keep up with offensive CD's with their defensive CD's.

    It does seem a tad overtuned, then again i'm not a fan of self healing what so ever. I would rather warriors were given a proper defensive CD which removed threat to balance out in PvE but keep up in PvP.

    Their mobility is probably the biggest thing i would like to see nerfed as it isn't balanced at all with their damage. I preferred the reward warriors were given with smart play (as they have always done decent burst packed in with a 50% healing debuff) but whatever, i remember a blue post a very long time ago that said they didn't want warriors sitting in roots all game as it wasn't fun apparently.

  5. #65
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Denmark, Ponyhagen
    Posts
    310
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    Came across a prot warrior in arenas last night. As resto shaman/arms warrior it wasn't possible to kill him because of second wind. His teammate died 1 minute into the match, and we gave up trying to kill him after another 15 or so. The warrior on my team is still in blue PvP gear with a 463 weapon, but the other warr looked to be similarly geared, so it shouldn't have mattered.

    I'd say that's pretty broken...
    Again I'm sorry to say that the game is not balanced and will never be balanced around 2v2.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Jawless Jones View Post
    ive noticed that if you're in defensive stance (and arent prot spec) you gain 1-2 rage per swing...
    Decreases damage taken by 25%.
    Significantly increases threat generation.
    Generates 1 Rage every 3 sec while in combat.
    Just an FYI on the rage aspect. (Zero rage from auto-swings)

    *Edit:
    thats def going in the sig
    I'M FAMOUS!
    Last edited by cutterx2202; 2012-12-13 at 08:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  7. #67
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Internet
    Posts
    889
    Second wind isnt the problem, defensive stance is.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    Sure Second Wind heals a lot, but their burst damage should be slightly nerfed before they target their healing.
    As a warrior I will state 2 things
    #1 our Burst needs to be lowered (but deep wounds must be buffed to compensate so we don't endure an overall dps loss)
    #2 Second wind should be effected by the pvp healing reduction but no actual nerfing is necessary.

    I think the majority of your issue with warriors though is the simple fact that you are a feral druid.
    Rogues would suffer as well but they have a better toolkit for dealing with warriors.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Jawless Jones View Post
    ive noticed that if you're in defensive stance (and arent prot spec) you gain 1-2 rage per swing...

    you literally are starving yourself of every ability (unless you are constantly stunned, which procs the rage part of 2nd wind), apart from mortal strike, for 25% dmg reduction

    also warriors have 3 defensive cds
    shield wall (requires shield, is removed by some classes with disarms)
    rallying cry (not really defensive, just a hp boost which is gone in 1 spell/ability)
    die by the sword (can be stunned to make useless, attacks from behind cant be parried, 20% less damage from spells since you cant parry spells)

    run that by your ingame knowledge of other melee classes defensives

    Rogue: evasion, vanish, blind (can be used offensively), CR (talent), Feint (talented, not on a cd), cloak
    DKs: icebound fort, antimagic shell, dks get the short stick here but Dks know this and hopefully blizz brings them up to speed with eveyone else
    monks: Touch of Karma, zen med (best spell against caster cleaves), fort brew, sparring (glyphed this gives 15% spell deflection as well as parry), amazing escapes
    Feral: survival instincts, bear form, might of ursoc, instant cyclones (can be used offensively)
    shaman: shamanistic rage, shamans in the same boat as dks, only viable spec is resto atm but thats a problem blizz will fix
    pallys: LoH (touch of karma but instead it heals instead of absorbing), hand of freedom, hand of prot, divine shield, divine protection, aoe blind, hand of sac

    as you can see warriors have the norm when it comes to defensive cds given to melee and its only a few classes/specs which are the exception and are left behind in cds
    so complaining that warriors have too many cds is a misinformed arguement at best

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 09:15 PM ----------



    thats def going in the sig
    i feel i have to correct some of the things in your list. you seem to be a little confused about what constitutes a defensive cooldown

    LoH is not usable in rated play and shouldn't even enter the discussion.
    bubble can be countered by two of the most popular classes in the game, causes forbearence.
    divine protection i is magic only unless glyphed and can't be used while silenced
    devo aura is magic only and can't be used while silenced.
    BoP makes you incapable of using your physical attacks and can't be used while silenced, causes forbearence, usually used to break stuns on partners.
    hand of sac is not a personal defensive cd it is used on others, but not on yourself. a lot of the time you just use it to break ccs.
    hand of freedom is not a defensive cooldown it is a mobility tool
    blinding light is a control tool that can be used defensively, not a defensive cooldown.

    a great many of these specs rely on active systems for survivability. systems that they can be locked out of, have purged off, or take time or resources to ramp up.

    second wind+def stance is completely passive and requires no imput from the warrior.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  10. #70
    2nd wind is not about how much it heals for. Its how quickly it heals for.

    A nerf would be. Drop the % it kicks in to 25% OR reduce the ticks to ever 2 seconds instead of every second.

    fixed. I dont see how this is rocket science to the devs.

    *edit - spelling

  11. #71
    Just mentioning recuperate and second wind in the same thread makes me mad.
    Recuperate is nothing compared to second wind... even combined with leeching poison.

  12. #72
    The funny part is people actually defend GC. Idk who's a bigger dumb ass; the people defending him or GC himself.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  13. #73
    Brewmaster Jigowatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,413
    First you want to nerf our damage, which is cool. We had very OP burst and it needed to be fixed. However, second wind is a staple to warriors currently. Without it we'll just be back to warriors being a pile of trash.

    Come on, just let us be decent for 1 full expansion? It's been a while.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Eowenn View Post
    First you want to nerf our damage, which is cool. We had very OP burst and it needed to be fixed. However, second wind is a staple to warriors currently. Without it we'll just be back to warriors being a pile of trash.

    Come on, just let us be decent for 1 full expansion? It's been a while.
    Isn't "decent" a huge understatement?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  15. #75
    High Overlord Raysere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    168
    Second Wind healing is pretty much irrelevant in 3v3. Be honest, how often does anyone sit that low for more then a couple of globals at most with the current state of game? Not often, really. The real reason to use it is for the Rage gain component.

    Outside of 3v3 though, it's definitely a little bit too strong, although that is partly due to the incredible control and mobility Warriors currently have which allows them to take advantage of it.

  16. #76
    Second wind needs to be affected by the 30% healing debuff, then it will be fine.
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

    RETH RETH RETH!

  17. #77
    All I see is "QQ I bursted a warrior while he was 100%, than second wind popped with another defensive cd, than I couldn't kill him anymoarrrr! NERF!"
    It's a l2play issue.
    Second Wind in 3s is fine.

  18. #78
    Second wind isn't the problem, it's second wind combined with resil gems + defensive stance. tons of burst damage, and unkillable is not okay.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    GC finally admitted Second Wind was too strong. He was warned in Beta, but as usual, he pulled the "our testing does not show this" card. which is code for "I'm the lead dev and I know what's best for the game"

    So, it's rather obvious the dude is pretty clueless when it comes to PvP, but Second Wind will be almost certainly nerfed in 5.2, about 4 months out.
    I'm sure he has his reasons for why he doesn't boost/nerf certain classes...but as usual, they are beyond me. :P

  20. #80
    All of warrior's heals were taken away when MoP came, and we were left with a choice between them... How does that make any sense when monks/DK/paladins (especially as tank) can heal themselves so hard that their hps is comparable to healer hps?

    And what do warriors have? A choice between 3 healing spells, while other tank classes have AT LEAST 3 healing spells. In what universe does that sound balanced to you?
    Give us impending victory+enraged regeneration as baseline, then you can nerf Second wind all you want.
    "And comes he slow, or comes he fast, it is but death who comes at last." -Sir Walter Scott

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •