Second wind needs changing. Now.

[Shagina]

How about make make it last 5 sec with a 15 sec ICD when triggered by a player? Will help the warrior when he drops low, but won't allow him to live at 25%-30% for extended periods of time.

[zoomgpally]

Does it matter? PvP matters as much as pet battles.

Are you saying pet battles doesnt matter?!

[Venaliter]

it isnt just that second wind is strong.

it's that you get passive healing, behind 25% passive DR (d stance), and you still have to get through DBTS, shield wall, and the DR banner.

This. Exactly.

Warrior are already nerfed enough.

Shows you how ridiculously broken they were at launch. To be fair, I think they should change TfB, but they still may have to nerf CD stacking slightly. Maybe.

A second wind nerf is totally not necessary,

I don't think it's Second Wind. I think it's def stance that's at fault. But GC seems to think it IS second wind..

dps specs shouldn't be able to access the full power of their tank stances, and for the most part they can't.

Exactly.

The problem isn't Second Wind alone, it's Second Wind + high passive & active damage reductions + ccs/stuns, all of it for free

Again, right on.

...completely broken situation 1vs1, which while the game isn't balanced around, it's a situation that can come up on high rated arenas when both teams only have one player alive; those situations shouldn't be won by silly mechanics.

PvP CAN and SHOULD be balanced 1 on 1, for the most part. This has been a blizzard cop-out for years, and it's really not acceptable. Perfect 1vs1 balance is no obtainable, but they can come fairly close by removing some of the more obnoxious class vs class abilities that lead to blowouts.

If, as a Warrior, the highest mobility class in the game, you are getting endlessly kited...
Well, I'm not saying you're terrible... but you're terrible.

Yes...well, except if you're fighting a mage. Warriors seem to think THEIR mobility should only be measured against mages, who have brokenly powerful control and mobility.

Personally, I would have kept Ice Barrier high and nerfed a mage's control instead of nerfing Ice Barrier and keeping control. But Blizzard's vision for mages is glass cannon..not balance. They are perhaps right.

[Quilava]

I laugh because probably more than half of you idiots don't know that if you simply stun the warrior second wind stops working.

QQ more children.

Keep it civil

[Deleted]

Hey, hey OP. Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...2lCVxefI#t=66s

You people are fucking stupid. Stop whining, stop trying to make warriors useless again. Dafuq is wrong with you. If you nerf warriors MORE, nerf the fuck out of druids and priests then as well.

Keep it civil

[Adlian]

I wish i was able to do that on my dk too

[Deleted]

All of warrior's heals were taken away when MoP came, and we were left with a choice between them... How does that make any sense when monks/DK/paladins (especially as tank) can heal themselves so hard that their hps is comparable to healer hps?

And what do warriors have? A choice between 3 healing spells, while other tank classes have AT LEAST 3 healing spells. In what universe does that sound balanced to you?
Give us impending victory+enraged regeneration as baseline, then you can nerf Second wind all you want.

As a DK player with an arms Warrior alt I already know the warrior self healing is way better than on my DK (unless the DK is blood spec, but even blood self healing is now heavily nerfed in pvp).

DPS Dks are literally running around as glass cannons at the moment, Blood Presence has got nothing on the -25% dmg def stance offers arms warriors and switching to it we still go down in seconds.

Compared to an arms warrior though, DKs have to sacrifice dps to heal with everything except the ghoul sacrifice for 50% health on a 2 min cd.

Second wind has no cooldown and always ticks for 3% total health when you fall below the mark it is always there as it has no cooldown.

A Dk's conversion talent by comparison also restores 3% health per second over its duration but that is tied to our runic power bar and does not function once its drained, plus it must also be manually activated.
Imagine second wind needing to be activated by the player and depleting your rage bar every tick and you get an idea what its like for us.

For a warrior with second wind they literally sacrifice nothing in their rotation to heal up, if they manage to kill someone they can easily follow up with a glyphed victory rush to restore their health to high levels at no rage cost.

Second wind needs to be more limited, either tie it to rage or give it a cooldown so it can only happen every so often.

[Venaliter]

I wish i was able to do that on my dk too

I know, right? And yet warriors don't see anything wrong with almost literally soloing two people.

[Deleted]

Why be so offensive if you want to argue wether a skill is fine or not? o0

[Mr. Casual]

Warrior Burst is too insane; Nerf TFB stacks to 3
Warrior Burst still out of control, Nerf TFB stacks to 1
Warrior has to much control; i can't cast anything, gag order nerf
Warrior has too much mobility; Avatar nerf plus rage gain

Second Wind is healing too much; how do you think everyone felt when rogues can just recoup and pillar hump; vanish etc all day?

PvP isn't balanced on 1v1 or dueling therefore there is no reason a class should be nerf to the ground just for the sake of your epeen.

PvP Balance is more focus on 3v3 arena and Battlegrounds; i'm currently 2450 experience and 2200 currently in 3v3 running WLS and we face 2400 rated teams all the time. Chain CC eventually happen and i almost always die in a deep freeze or get finished of by the shadow priest.

398k hp
63% resil
Second Wind starts ticking at 130k HP

Deep Freeze = can't reflect
Frost Bomb hits for 120k thru 25% dmg reduction from defensive stance
10k hp left; throw in another spell from; mage, druid or priest gg.

even as prot in arena, 2 people can kill you. RBG = u die obviously from 10 people hitting you.

stop asking for nerfs because you can't win a 1v1 vs a warrior.

--

thank god someone sees it. as stated already balance is around 3v3

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 02:10 PM ----------

I wish i was able to do that on my dk too

i wish 2s mattered at all in a pvp environment

[Jawless Jones]

I know, right? And yet other classes cant solo two people when one of them is as retarded as that gnome warrior.

oh wait.. they can

[Snuggli]

I know, right? And yet other classes cant solo two people when one of them is as retarded as that gnome warrior.

oh wait.. they can

There's a difference between soloing two people, and what he did. When people claim they have solod an arena game, they normally pop all their CDs, keep one person CC'd for 5-10s while they nuke the other one. Reckful ate the damage of the DPS for nearly 5 minutes.

In Cata, the risk with warriors was that good swaps would score kills on them consistently - warriors were relatively frail compared to other melee classes. You would swap to them, they would go defensive/shield wall, you would swap off - you would swap back after shield wall and they would very often die, if they didn't - you just rode them until they did - because they were out of options at that point. Second Wind gives Warriors the survivability they need to be competitive with other melee, it has to remain as powerful as it is or it becomes meaningless.

The problem now is, it's nearly impossible to ride a Warrior to death because they sit in D-stance with 60%+ resilience and a 20s AoE stun. On top of that, once they get below a certain amount of health they pretty much don't need a healer anymore if they can kite well. With peels from a partner, it doesn't matter if the warriors healer is in CC - you can't kill a good one without CDs.

Anyone who thinks second wind is OP needs to learn to play. End of story.

11k per second is nothing, and now minus 30% due to the healing debuff, if you can't out dps that then I have no idea what the hell any other player is doing.

25% Dmg reduction in D. Stance, it is for when you are playing DEFENSIVE, only few stay in D stance the whole time, and those that do gut their rage generation.

DBTS ? It is another DEFENSIVE COOLDOWN, guess what? Stun the warrior and it does nothing, or count down 8 seconds when you see a warrior pop it while popping your own Defensive cooldowns if need be to survive.

Shield Wall ? Disarm the warrior, they will lose their shield wall buff.

God I hate it when people think they should be able to burn through every other class, god forbid people need to actually learn to fight against certain other classes.

So much wrong with this post. 11k per second is A LOT. If you are below 30%, you warbringer a dps and then shockwave him.. That's nearly 80k you've healed WHILE doing damage into them. As far as I know, percentage based heals don't suffer from the -30% debuff. Top-tier warriors actually sit in defensive stance nearly all of the time they aren't going for a kill, and even if they are they sometimes sit in it in case they over extend. Not every comp has a disarm, and often the disarm is used on the skullbanner/avatar/reck/trinket oneshot macro.

[Bobzor]

I know, right? And yet other classes cant solo two people when one of them is as retarded as that gnome warrior.

oh wait.. they can

JK can't even solo the most retarded gnome warrior in the world, Oh well, Life as Ele shaman isn't supposed to be fun {◕ ◡ ◕}

[Deleted]

ive noticed that if you're in defensive stance (and arent prot spec) you gain 1-2 rage per swing...

you literally are starving yourself of every ability (unless you are constantly stunned, which procs the rage part of 2nd wind), apart from mortal strike, for 25% dmg reduction

also warriors have 3 defensive cds
shield wall (requires shield, is removed by some classes with disarms)
rallying cry (not really defensive, just a hp boost which is gone in 1 spell/ability)
die by the sword (can be stunned to make useless, attacks from behind cant be parried, 20% less damage from spells since you cant parry spells)

run that by your ingame knowledge of other melee classes defensives

Rogue: evasion, vanish, blind (can be used offensively), CR (talent), Feint (talented, not on a cd), cloak
DKs: icebound fort, antimagic shell, dks get the short stick here but Dks know this and hopefully blizz brings them up to speed with eveyone else
monks: Touch of Karma, zen med (best spell against caster cleaves), fort brew, sparring (glyphed this gives 15% spell deflection as well as parry), amazing escapes
Feral: survival instincts, bear form, might of ursoc, instant cyclones (can be used offensively)
shaman: shamanistic rage, shamans in the same boat as dks, only viable spec is resto atm but thats a problem blizz will fix
pallys: LoH (touch of karma but instead it heals instead of absorbing), hand of freedom, hand of prot, divine shield, divine protection, aoe blind, hand of sac

as you can see warriors have the norm when it comes to defensive cds given to melee and its only a few classes/specs which are the exception and are left behind in cds
so complaining that warriors have too many cds is a misinformed arguement at best

Well you're wrong with alot of things in that list.

Rogue: Cloak and Vanish sort of have to be used together since theres tons of dots and anti damage things these days. Thats like 1 CD almost. Blind is a CC, not a Def cooldown. Thats like saying "Well warriors can fear and shockwave as defensive CDs". Feint is only AOE damage, how relevant is that in a pvp situation? Evasion and CR is correct but that only works on melee. Basically the only thing they got vs casters is cloak+vanish.

DK: AMS, Fortitude and pet sacrifice.

Monks: yeah i don't know their class but you got that covered.

Feral: Bear form is shit these days, instant clones is CC, not Def CDs. Survival instincts yes, might of ursoc is like Rallying Cry, that you thought was shit.

Shaman: Shamanistic Rage, Astral Shift.

Paly: This is where you are ignorant and show no knowledge of the class. First of all, LoH doesn't work in arena, has a big CD and you can't use it together with bubble or BoP. You need the bubble to break CC along with the defense and bubble is as "dispellable" as your stupid shieldwall so stop crying. BoP stops almost 100% of your damage and only works on melee, so it's only bubble you can say here. Freedom is no def CD, it doesnt make you take less damage unless you kite with it, and thats pretty much what all ranged do. Would you consider kiting a Def CD? Divine protection yes, aoe blind is a CC, not def CD and shittier than ur aoe fear aswell. Hand of sacrifice doesnt protected yourself, and its used mostly as Anti-CC, like Glyphed SWeath. The real answer is simply Divine Shield and Divine Protection and they are getting the short stick of squishyness aswell.

So in other words truth is most melee only have 2 reliable defensive cools, and you say warriors have 3? With the addition of Defensive Stance. Get real dude, stop defending your lovely class and see listen to other voices aswell.

[Fiddlesnarf]

All I see is "QQ I bursted a warrior while he was 100%, than second wind popped with another defensive cd, than I couldn't kill him anymoarrrr! NERF!"
It's a l2play issue.
Second Wind in 3s is fine.

You aren't helping your case when you act like a retard, kiddo.

Infracted. Keep it civil

[Venaliter]

Well you're wrong with alot of things in that list.

It's hard to respect Jawless. On the other hand, Warriors have eaten nerf after nerf after nerf. All pretty fair, but there is some legitimacy to the "enough already." frame of mind.

[apepi]

I don't have a problem with healing of Second wind but I do have a problem that it requires 0 thought. No cd, requires no loss of resources, and no loss of dps. That needs to change, how they got just a passive healing just astounds me.

[Blackeyecycle]

This exactly.

Don't post "this" posts

Dear Darsithis: You are a fuckin goof. Merry Christmas douche bag. You infracted me for agreeing with someone. Get a life.

[Deleted]

Dear Darsithis: You are a fuckin goof. Merry Christmas douche bag. You infracted me for agreeing with someone. Get a life.

Lol well.. thats some hot words you have there. I trolled when i pointed out a fact.

[Deleted]

I saw the same 10 different warrior posters claiming warriors were balanced 2 months ago, and any nerfs to the warrior class would bring back season 11 standards. Now a handful of nerfs later arms warriors (together with ferals) are still the strongest dps spec in pvp.

Let me get something straight here. People asking for further warrior fine tunings/nerfs are not interrested in a 100% win ratio against warriors, but they are merely stating that they want a chance to outplay second wind/defensive stance/shockwave.