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  1. #21
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    In regards to Lei Shi, I cannot make too many comments. As far, however, as Tsulong is concerned, I think that she can be doing more single target throughput by switching two talents.

    The AoE healing is not quite so important as the single target for day phases, so the two talents I would use are Echo of the Elements (where I know she was using Elemental Mastery) and Unleashed Fury (where I did not see any castings of Unleash Weapon in her buffs uptime, though perhaps it does not display there).

    Also, yes, mastery is a far more beneficial stat in this tier of content than haste is, simply due to the fact that the mechanics of most of the encounters will leave players in low health situations enough to where mastery will give more overall benefit than a slightly faster casting time will.

    I won't claim to be an expert on shamans, but from the perspective of a fellow healer, that is what I would change.

    P.S. : For anyone who looks at this Wol report, yes. I am also speaking as someone who was in this very same raid.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome Maximus4004's Avatar
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    You guys mind carrying me through content?

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  3. #23
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
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    Sure come on over! Get to transferring

  4. #24
    Mechagnome Maximus4004's Avatar
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    Lol, my gf would kill me! Hopefully your shaman can get stuff worked out and best of luck to you guys!

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  5. #25
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
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    Sadly she left during the middle of the attempt before Drshakalu came in. She's my friend and it makes me pretty sad how things went down.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    In regards to Lei Shi, I cannot make too many comments. As far, however, as Tsulong is concerned, I think that she can be doing more single target throughput by switching two talents.

    The AoE healing is not quite so important as the single target for day phases, so the two talents I would use are Echo of the Elements (where I know she was using Elemental Mastery) and Unleashed Fury (where I did not see any castings of Unleash Weapon in her buffs uptime, though perhaps it does not display there).

    Also, yes, mastery is a far more beneficial stat in this tier of content than haste is, simply due to the fact that the mechanics of most of the encounters will leave players in low health situations enough to where mastery will give more overall benefit than a slightly faster casting time will.

    I won't claim to be an expert on shamans, but from the perspective of a fellow healer, that is what I would change.

    P.S. : For anyone who looks at this Wol report, yes. I am also speaking as someone who was in this very same raid.
    Echo of the Elements kinda blows for Resto, since it's a 6% chance, and most of our heals are pretty big. Usually goes right into overhealing unless you're tank spamming

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    Echo of the Elements kinda blows for Resto, since it's a 6% chance, and most of our heals are pretty big. Usually goes right into overhealing unless you're tank spamming
    However, it's a bit hard to overheal Tsulong during day phases. Thus why I would personally select that talent just for that fight.

  8. #28
    I just took a good hard look at the tsulong kill so far and she didn't use not one healing surge in that encounter this is bad as you can get a 3 mill healing surge straight up on that boss fight by using a intell pot on the very first day phase and pull crazy numbers, also using healing rain under tsulong is very good idea and it will increase her healing on him and also poping ascendance in the day phase while having the healing buff is a very good way of using that cd as totems dont get effected by the buff.

    On another note 6-7 healers for 25 man is way 2 much on some encounters 4-5 is a very good point to look at on the amount of healing you need on the encounter/s capping out at 6 healers if its a healing intensive fight raid wise healing intensive.
    Last edited by Velthari; 2012-12-13 at 02:36 AM.

  9. #29
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
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    The only fight we would push to 7 healers is Tsulong, some fights we use 5, but often use 6. This is mainly due to a couple of weaker healers that we're coaching.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathina View Post
    Haste becomes useless past first break point is what I'm saying, because totem ticks are bugged. You can have second breakpoint and have 2/5 HTT extra ticks work. I think it's still matter of knowing incoming dmg, using right healing abilities at that time, learn to rotate cooldowns and be more aggressive.
    you must have missed my sarcasm with my OP i was questioning the fact why any shaman would stack haste or put it above any other stat for that matter.
    -Biotics-

  11. #31
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
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    FWIW the other shaman that came in to replace her on the fight, is an alt. He does pretty well overall, even if maybe he needs some tweaks.

  12. #32
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumwd View Post
    The only fight we would push to 7 healers is Tsulong, some fights we use 5, but often use 6. This is mainly due to a couple of weaker healers that we're coaching.
    Not on topic, but by weaker healers she means me. I'm totally getting carried.

  13. #33
    Not that healing is my strong-point at all, and tbh I haven't even been playing for a while, but it still seems to me that your allowing a friendship to take precedent over progression, which is fine if that is the ethos of your guild, but in my guild if a healer had been out-performed by an alt she would have been replaced pretty quickly
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Source)
    Paladin chat and whispers now appear with sparkles.
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    All dungeon & raid bosses now have legs. If they already had legs, they got more legs.

  14. #34
    On the Lei-Shi attempts she had ridiculously high overhealing for a Shaman. Even more so considering how low the acual healing was.

    Noticed that someone said Tsulong Buff doesnt affect totems. That's untrue. I've always used Healing Tide with the Sun Breath and it ticks for ALOT!

  15. #35
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xor7486 View Post
    Wait, people are dying due to lack of healing and her solution is to bring less healers? Does not compute.
    Makes perfect sense, don't bring her and bring a strong dps instead. A 2 shadowpriests could do her amounts of healing through passive abilities! If you don't believe me, look at this try.

    It's also hilarious when you look at her overhealing (on the right side), it honestly seems like she has no clue what she's supposed to be doing!

  16. #36
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
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    She isn't in the guild anymore. She left that night and has been replaced. Typically she does better than what was seen in those logs, but still not as high as she probably could have been. IMO there's always room for improvement with any player.

    I think that her point was actually about the overhealing. She said that because we had 5 other healers, of course her heals are going to be overheals because the other healers were getting to people first. I think that was the logic being used there.

    Ultimately she is my friend and I'm not going to say anything bad about her. We obviously disagreed on this point and that's okay!
    Last edited by jadedot; 2012-12-13 at 05:26 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    It's also hilarious when you look at her overhealing (on the right side), it honestly seems like she has no clue what she's supposed to be doing!
    It's easy to sit and look at a log and criticize, but there's really no point, especially as the poor girl probably isn't even reading these comments to defend herself. There's been more than enough constructive comments in this thread, skill sets differ player to player, and even then not everyone can perform perfectly.

    I'm sure the helpful pointers have been passed on.

  18. #38
    The argument about shaman mastery and fewer healers is overblown. The only way Shaman mastery would make a Shaman equivalent to 2 healers is
    (1) Everyone is sitting at 1% HP constantly
    (2)The Shaman is at 100% mastery. In reality, that is not attainable; at current gear levels 65% mastery is about as high as you can get.
    If people are at 50% health and the shaman has 50% mastery, she heals for 25% more. That is about as high of a mastery benefit as you would realistically achieve by dropping healers. Dropping healers so a Shaman can heal 20-25% more does not add up to making sense unless you didn't need the healers to begin with.

    -Earth Shield - I think people somewhat overrate 100% Earth Shield uptime. The reality is, Earth shield is very weak in MoP, and the healing that you get from 9 ES orbs is very poor from a mana efficiency perspective. You only gain efficiency if you are casting heals on the tank with ES up to get the 20% buff. If you are doing minimal tank healing, it's arguably not worth the mana cost/GCD to refresh ES. It at least isn't worth immediately refreshing it in most cases if you have HR, HST or Riptide available and aren't planning on casting a direct heal on a tank right then.
    -Healing Rain/ULE - Using ULE with Healing Rain is something you should do if ULE is off cooldown, because it's a major HPM increase. However, it's debatable if you should wait for ULE to come off CD to cast Healing Rain, because in many cases, that is a HPS decrease. How I usually handle it is.
    1. If ULE is off CD, use it with HR
    2. If there is light to limited raid damage, wait to line up ULE/HR
    3. If there is heavy/burst raid damage or if you have Ascendance up, it is generally worth using HR right away instead of waiting to line them up, because you lose a lot of burst healing potential otherwise
    4. If you're heavily mana constrained, always wait to line them up to increase the HPM/mana efficiency.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 02:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    However, it's a bit hard to overheal Tsulong during day phases. Thus why I would personally select that talent just for that fight.
    It's only worth doing that if you have enough haste on gear to be past the first breakpoint (about 2035 IIRC) without being specced into Ancestral Swiftness. Otherwise, you would have to reforge into more haste. If you don't hit that breakpoint, you lose far more output than you gain from EoE.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by plumwd View Post
    She isn't in the guild anymore. She left that night and has been replaced. Typically she does better than what was seen in those logs, but still not as high as she probably could have been. IMO there's always room for improvement with any player.

    I think that her point was actually about the overhealing. She said that because we had 5 other healers, of course her heals are going to be overheals because the other healers were getting to people first. I think that was the logic being used there.

    Ultimately she is my friend and I'm not going to say anything bad about her. We obviously disagreed on this point and that's okay!
    Well, obviously, there was more going on here. You said she typically does better than these last couple/few encounters. From reading people's comments on the parses, it just seems like her activity itself was low -- just not doing as much as she used to.

    Not sure if you're the raid leader or guild leader (or both), but I would have investigated what led to this drop in performance beyond the mechanical ("oh, she's not cating as many spells as she used to" would not satisfy me). For instance, I would address any potential heal sniping -- make sure the healers are covering their assignments and trusting each other to cover assignments, and making sure that any straying is communicated (before/after attempts -- such as, "My tank wasn't taking much damage so I was helping group 1").

    If she was good enough to be part of your team up until this point, I'm sure she's well aware of how to play her spec. I mean, it's over with now (or at least actions have occurred, which may or may not be reversible) ... but maybe she was frustrated with some of the newer healers that have been brought on (assuming some were newer than her). Maybe she just got heal sniped a ton in a given night and she just felt ineffective, which led to frustration, which led to poor performance.

    Maybe it's just because I, as the GM of the last 25-player guild on our shrinking server, don't have the luxury of being able to toss people out and replace them over one bad night/week, but I'd rather fix issues than step over them. But even beyond that, you say this person is a friend -- it's a bit shocking to me that you'd consider this person a friend but would be somewhat tone deaf with regard to seeing where she fits into all this as a person and not just a resto shaman.

    edit/update:
    Ah, re-read and saw it says she left and was replaced rather than just was replaced. Makes it a bit more curious to me, actually, that she would leave. Almost maybe like this is the very outcome she feared in the first place which led to her frustrations and complaints about wanting to go with fewer healers to reduce overhealing. Maybe she felt embarrassed over her performance when normally it's better ... I dunno. There's more going on here.
    Last edited by Count Zero; 2012-12-13 at 07:16 PM.

  20. #40
    well most of the things have already being said so look at it this way

    she has lots of room to improve and when she does you'll be better as a group

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 01:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by plumwd View Post
    She isn't in the guild anymore. She left that night and has been replaced. Typically she does better than what was seen in those logs, but still not as high as she probably could have been. IMO there's always room for improvement with any player.

    I think that her point was actually about the overhealing. She said that because we had 5 other healers, of course her heals are going to be overheals because the other healers were getting to people first. I think that was the logic being used there.

    Ultimately she is my friend and I'm not going to say anything bad about her. We obviously disagreed on this point and that's okay!

    oops guess it doesn't apply anymore well as for the overhealing a thing that has worked for me especially on large groups is to assign certain groups to certain healers
    making sure they know those people are their responsability first it helps a lot with the overheals and with the mana management

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