Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Treasure Coast
    Posts
    114

    Help Me Solve a Dispute, Check Out Our Shaman

    Last night we had a dispute in the guild with one of our resto shaman. She insists that we take LESS healers and then her heals will shine more (less healers == more to heal == less overhealing by others). While I understand it to a point, only a couple of our healers are strong and so getting rid of even one taxes the stronger healers more.

    On all of our attempts last night, she was very low, even lower than some of the less strong healers. Could someone analyze her to see what's going on there? After she left (on Lei Shi) we brought in another shaman, who did very well on the fight. They are both equally geared and it was the same raid setup so I don't see what the discrepancy is in their healing, other than play style.

    I know that shamans have something about their mastery that makes heals stronger? I honestly have no clue, I've never touched a shaman so please enlighten me.

    Any insight would be much appreciated. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vb3vwgips74sq0v4/
    Last edited by jadedot; 2012-12-13 at 10:46 PM.

  2. #2
    Without contributing anything else, yes, Shamans have a mastery-talent who basically buffs the healing when people are low on health - thus a mastery-focused shaman can hit insane healing on fights where people are low most of the time, his/her heals can easily be sniped by other classses on "normal" fights.

    However, on most fights they should be perform on par with other classes. (baring any general class discrepancies atm - i havent shammy-healed since easter )

  3. #3
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Treasure Coast
    Posts
    114
    Okay, well then maybe she's doing something wrong? Because on a fight like Lei Shi, during Get Away, she should be spiking heals like mad then. We had people dying in that phase due to low heals.

  4. #4
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    9,928
    In theory she is correct, but often theory is debunked by practical tests.

    Although she is likely to do more healing, the amount of healing may not be accountable for two healers. If a Shaman however, equally as geared came in and disproved her, then you don't need any other proof. She is wrong.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 03:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by plumwd View Post
    Okay, well then maybe she's doing something wrong? Because on a fight like Lei Shi, during Get Away, she should be spiking heals like mad then. We had people dying in that phase due to low heals.
    Then it is her issue. Not an issue with to not enough to heal, obviously.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    In theory she is correct, but often theory is debunked by practical tests.

    Although she is likely to do more healing, the amount of healing may not be accountable for two healers. If a Shaman however, equally as geared came in and disproved her, then you don't need any other proof. She is wrong.
    Well, theoretically, for a give fight, if she is mastery-focused, and the other shaman is haste-focused, you wouldnt necessarily be able to draw that conclusion

    Just saying .....

  6. #6
    Wait, people are dying due to lack of healing and her solution is to bring less healers? Does not compute.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4773&e=5185
    (select buffs cast tab)

    Her buff uptimes are terrible. Looks like she was AFK half the fight. She used Healing Stream Totem twice in a 7 minute fight. She should have used it 13 or 14 times.
    Last edited by xor7486; 2012-12-12 at 04:00 PM.

  7. #7
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Treasure Coast
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by xor7486 View Post
    Wait, people are dying due to lack of healing and her solution is to bring less healers? Does not compute.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4773&e=5185
    (select buffs cast tab)

    Her buff uptimes are terrible. Looks like she was AFK half the fight.
    Yeah that was my point, that with low heals, and people dying to low heals, the solution is obviously not to bring LESS. She says that she would have more healing if we weren't all overhealing so much, but there isn't a whole lot of overhealing.

    Can you explain which buff uptimes are low?

  8. #8
    All of them. Ancestral vigor should be at 100%. It gets applied after any direct heal and stays up for 15 seconds. The fact that it's at 70% suggest she was literally casting nothing for most of the fight.
    Last edited by xor7486; 2012-12-12 at 04:18 PM.

  9. #9
    1) Uptimes on our most efficient heals seemed low. Riptide, HST, Earth shield should be used on CD/always be active whenever possible. In fact she (apologies if it's a he, just going by the first post) is even using Riptide glyph, there's really no reason this should be lower than 80% uptime minimum. The shaman that replaced her had better uptimes, thus higher healing yielded from these spells.

    2) Better timing/use of cds. Check any top shaman log and healing tide/restorative mists will have a big part to play in their overall healing. Don't rely on your cds, but try and get as much out of them as possible. Again, you can compare the two.

    3) Lei Shi on normal is more single target than anything since tanks take the majority of the damage. the second shaman did a tonne more single target healing.

    4) Unleash life before healing rain. Both shamans weren't doing this and it's a serious hps boost on our best throughput spell.

    5) Specced into Primal Elementalist yet not usnig the Empower/Reinforce abilities granted by them. Second shaman did.


    Hope this helps, not trying to point out everything that's wrong, just poking at areas that could be improved, apologies if it sounds harsh. Best of luck!

  10. #10
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Treasure Coast
    Posts
    114
    I don't think it sounds harsh at all! That's why I love coming here with questions like this. Always good constructive criticism. People think criticism is bad, but in many cases it's a good thing and useful

    You guys have substantiated what I have thought all along, and provided what I was looking for. I am more trying to gather the proper feedback to give to her so that she can see it from another point of view.

    Thanks!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by plumwd View Post
    I don't think it sounds harsh at all! That's why I love coming here with questions like this. Always good constructive criticism. People think criticism is bad, but in many cases it's a good thing and useful
    question is how people handle criticism

  12. #12
    I think she needs to re-visit a Resto Shammy guide and brush up on her skills/knowledge of the spec. If what people above as saying is true (and no reason to doubt them) then she needs to learn her spec from the ground up pretty much.

    Keeping Earth shield, HST, Riptide uptimes high are Resto shammy basics. Also; glyph of healing wave when she casts 4/5 healing waves a fight. Well her she IS doing something right, she's not using Healing wave much, hehe. Glyphing it is madness though.

  13. #13
    I only needed to check the logs of Tsulong to proof point that she isn't a good healer. She should have more then 90k healing easily on that fight. Either she is not aggressively spamming her heals, and therefore waiting for tons of dmg to go off instead of pre-healing incoming dmg or she is just slow. Her healing is just too low...and it has nothing to do with the healing composition, there is hardly any absorb going about. My raid goes with Disc Priest and two Holy Paladins, so a heck of a lot of absorb going around.

    On Tsulong she should have Healing Rain down all the time, preferably on the ranged since they'd usually stack near the beam and keep healing stream down. On day phase she should Earth Shield Tsulong, Riptide/UE five seconds before he casts and then spam Healing Surge till buff ends, that alone (2x in fight) should put her above 100k hps >.> On Lei Shi, she should rotate her cooldowns. First "Get Away" use HTT, second one following use Spiritwalker's Grace + Ascendance + Chain Heal spam. Usually by the the next two sets of "Get Away" her cooldowns should be finished again. Otherwise keep Healing Rain up on melee (when dmg is incoming) most of times. There are parts where dmg is very low so she can just use HW on that.

    I am not going to check all bosses, but ye...she should manage her spells more firmly and aggressive heal more...
    I might be slow, but seen she left the guild today?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 07:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Navitas View Post
    I think she needs to re-visit a Resto Shammy guide and brush up on her skills/knowledge of the spec. If what people above as saying is true (and no reason to doubt them) then she needs to learn her spec from the ground up pretty much.

    Keeping Earth shield, HST, Riptide uptimes high are Resto shammy basics. Also; glyph of healing wave when she casts 4/5 healing waves a fight. Well her she IS doing something right, she's not using Healing wave much, hehe. Glyphing it is madness though.
    While I agree about reading the guide, I do think Healing Wave should be used a lot. While it is a low hps, it does wonders for your mana since you get a lot back off it. Inbetween burst dmg Healing Wave is essential, or while having Healing Rain down and spam HW also. Glyph of Healing Wave is bis if you are on a fight where there is nonstop dmg going out and you don't have to worry about yourselves. A good healer knows when and which spells to use to conserve mana most of all. I tend to use Healing Wave a lot more then I prob should, but I heal aggresively so I keep active.
    Last edited by Cathina; 2012-12-12 at 06:10 PM.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Maximus4004's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Manhattan, KS
    Posts
    662
    Plum,

    Here are some quick tips to help her out.

    -When using healing rain try to use unleash elements right before it as HR can benefit from UE
    -Have her use Healing Stream Totem on CD, this is a free hot from shamans that instantly heals the lowest person.
    -Tell her to keep riptide rolling on at least the tanks if not several people as well as earthshield on the current tank taking the bosses.
    -Tell her to use Healing Tide during extensive damage inc's(On most fights these are pretty easy to take note of(Crush Garalon, Titan Gas Emps etc, Get Away Shu)

    Although these are simplistic playing a resto shaman is far from difficult. I raid along side a disc priest who is bubble galore and granted hell beat me on fights that lack AoE Stacking and large damage outputs, I still stay competitive with his bubbles using the simple rules above. Hope this helps.



    Edit:

    The best way to analyze a healers capabilities is to simply looking at the healing done graph compare yours to mine. Note that the green lines are always far above the red lines where in her case they are always far below. Shamans are extraordinary healers especially when there's a lot of damage to heal.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...kp5/details/2/
    Last edited by Maximus4004; 2012-12-12 at 06:27 PM.

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by drazzil View Post
    the other shaman is haste-focused
    Quote Originally Posted by drazzil View Post
    the other shaman is haste-focused
    Quote Originally Posted by drazzil View Post
    the other shaman is haste-focused
    Quote Originally Posted by drazzil View Post
    the other shaman is haste-focused
    .... im just sayin
    -Biotics-

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Biotics83 View Post
    .... im just sayin
    Haste becomes useless past first break point is what I'm saying, because totem ticks are bugged. You can have second breakpoint and have 2/5 HTT extra ticks work. I think it's still matter of knowing incoming dmg, using right healing abilities at that time, learn to rotate cooldowns and be more aggressive.

  17. #17
    High Overlord jadedot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Treasure Coast
    Posts
    114
    In fairness to her, she has asked me to post a better log.

    This is from Garalon the night before: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10828&e=11252
    Tsulong last week http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9113&e=9589

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Maximus4004's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Manhattan, KS
    Posts
    662
    Lots of HR and no uses of UE. I'm pretty sure she only used HST one time(It has a 30 second cd). Riptides uptime is better.

    At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  19. #19
    The Patient Alexeiblu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    265
    Quote Originally Posted by Biotics83 View Post
    .... im just sayin
    If you are talking about Drshakalu he isn't really haste-focused. Definitely is putting Haste>Crit though but I wouldn't say Haste focused. I also can't see anything on Aastra since she has left your guild/changed specs. For the most part though, what people are saying above is correct especially Maximus and Cathina

  20. #20
    Field Marshal Agatha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Chile
    Posts
    83
    I'm not an expert at all, but... isn't her Earth shield uptime too low? I mean, she just used it like 4 or 5 times per fight...
    I'm not saying she should be spamming it everytime it still has 3 or 4 charges, but it's weird... just that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •