Thread: reduce burst

  1. #1

    reduce burst

    If blizzard wants to reduce burst in pvp why dont they make resil reduce crit chance again?

  2. #2
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fainth View Post
    If blizzard wants to reduce burst in pvp why dont they make resil reduce crit chance again?
    Because not every class has an equal amount of crit. One class may have 10% crit, while another may be sitting at 30%

  3. #3
    Crit reduction would effect certain classes way more than others.
    For example firemages would certainly be useless with high crit reduction.
    Crit DAMAGE reduction would be more appropriate.

    Blizzard is btw reducing burst every few weeks. CD stacking has to be loocked at and the trinket nerf wasn't the right way in my opinion.
    Also the way bigger problem in my opinion is the amount of instant cc, which was already mentioned in an interview a few days ago.
    Adding more dr/changing dr schools isn't the right way to go. AoE instant cc like blinding light has to be taken out of the game.
    (With WL, Warrior and Priest fear are okish, even though warrior fear should see an increase in cooldown.)
    The only real instant cc's should be stuns. It's not okay to have perfect positioning and get caught in a bloodfear as soon as you crawl out
    from your pillar to get 1 GCD out.
    The intention of all the instant cc was to give players another possibility to play defensively, but it gets used offensively more often.
    Some sort of "reactional" factor like with the old revenge should be in place, only allowing these cc's to land on players who landed a spell or a melee attack on
    you within the last couple of seconds.

  4. #4
    Im mad that heals are reduced by 30%.... Why not also add a dmg reduction debuff?

  5. #5
    I am sooooo close to quit wow until a better patch for PvP arrives. The amount of burst is worse than WotLK and it made me quit until Cata.

    Ghostcrawler's argument "We don't want to do complete overhauls in order not to irritate the playerbase" is so invalid, because the literally anything would irritate me less than the current state of the burst in PvP. I don't want to wait 2 more years until I play the game I was enjoying quite a bit until very recently. But if I am forced by this weird strategy to do so, well, I guess that's what I am going to do.

    I would like to warn Blizzard about this strategy though, I can't guarantee if I am coming back after 2 years of not playing the game and I am not going to put up with 2 years of constant frustration.

    If the game requires such an overhaul, then maybe that expansion shouldn't have been released before the issues were addressed in the first place.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kharyll View Post
    I am sooooo close to quit wow until a better patch for PvP arrives. The amount of burst is worse than WotLK and it made me quit until Cata.

    Ghostcrawler's argument "We don't want to do complete overhauls in order not to irritate the playerbase" is so invalid, because the literally anything would irritate me less than the current state of the burst in PvP. I don't want to wait 2 more years until I play the game I was enjoying quite a bit until very recently. But if I am forced by this weird strategy to do so, well, I guess that's what I am going to do.

    I would like to warn Blizzard about this strategy though, I can't guarantee if I am coming back after 2 years of not playing the game and I am not going to put up with 2 years of constant frustration.

    If the game requires such an overhaul, then maybe that expansion shouldn't have been released before the issues were addressed in the first place.
    You != the playerbase

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by turskanaattori View Post
    You != the playerbase
    Yet, I never said I am the playerbase, yet while asking people not to make overgeneralizations using fancy !='s ,GC is making an overgeneralization there (which I put between quotes).
    I never said the playerbase feels that way, I said "I feel that way".

    Reading is only the first step of understanding.

  8. #8
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fainth View Post
    Im mad that heals are reduced by 30%.... Why not also add a dmg reduction debuff?
    If you reduce healing done by 30% and reduce damage done by 30%, the 2 buffs would negate each other pretty much...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    If you reduce healing done by 30% and reduce damage done by 30%, the 2 buffs would negate each other pretty much...
    Reducing damage by 30% reduces burst potential while reducing healing by 30% makes you more likely to oom the healer or outplay him rather than pop all your cd's and blast his face in once every 2 minutes. It would only not matter if they also reduced health by 30%.

  10. #10
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Figoment View Post
    Reducing damage by 30% reduces burst potential while reducing healing by 30% makes you more likely to oom the healer or outplay him rather than pop all your cd's and blast his face in once every 2 minutes. It would only not matter if they also reduced health by 30%.
    You are wrong there.
    Damage outside burst phases usually apply a decent amount of pressure which will make the healer lose mana. If you reduce that damage, there will be less pressure between the burst phases, means the healer will have to heal less, so less chance of OOMing...

    Burst is already being nerfed, nerfing all damage would simply make healers near immortal again

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    You are wrong there.
    Damage outside burst phases usually apply a decent amount of pressure which will make the healer lose mana. If you reduce that damage, there will be less pressure between the burst phases, means the healer will have to heal less, so less chance of OOMing...

    Burst is already being nerfed, nerfing all damage would simply make healers near immortal again
    Healers weren't near immortal against GOOD DPS. Currently you can pretty much global anybody if two competent DPS work together. The healing reduction means you can actually outright ignore healers and just tunnel someone, anyone with all CD's and have a fairly high chance of scoring a skill. Some combos run on this out DPSing a healer who's spamming his strongest heals.

    I don't see the great burst nerf they talk about all the time. I can burst down people without any kind of problem on my mage. Add another DPS and you can kill pretty much anything instantly. Other classes can do so aswell when popping cool downs. Damage outside of burst phase is still damn high and builds up a lot of pressure when playing the right class.

  12. #12
    The 30% healing reduction hurts me badly because with the state of PvP now, I am CC'd more than half the time in a fight against competent players in BG's. Casting times mean no cast and all I can use is instant cast heals between CC's.

  13. #13
    id suggest making ALL healing spells instant, but increase their cost and reduce regen by like 10-15%.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noepeen View Post
    Crit reduction would effect certain classes way more than others.
    For example firemages would certainly be useless with high crit reduction.
    Crit DAMAGE reduction would be more appropriate.

    Blizzard is btw reducing burst every few weeks. CD stacking has to be loocked at and the trinket nerf wasn't the right way in my opinion.
    Also the way bigger problem in my opinion is the amount of instant cc, which was already mentioned in an interview a few days ago.
    Adding more dr/changing dr schools isn't the right way to go. AoE instant cc like blinding light has to be taken out of the game.
    (With WL, Warrior and Priest fear are okish, even though warrior fear should see an increase in cooldown.)
    The only real instant cc's should be stuns. It's not okay to have perfect positioning and get caught in a bloodfear as soon as you crawl out
    from your pillar to get 1 GCD out.
    The intention of all the instant cc was to give players another possibility to play defensively, but it gets used offensively more often.
    Some sort of "reactional" factor like with the old revenge should be in place, only allowing these cc's to land on players who landed a spell or a melee attack on
    you within the last couple of seconds.
    Crit damage reduction would also nerf some classes way more than others. There's a reason they removed that aspect of resilience and it's a damn good one. Destro locks and Ele shamans would be 100% worthless if this was brought back. All of their main damage would be nerfed, while classes like Affliction locks and boomkins that don't rely on such huge crits would be hugely advantaged. Problem is, crit doesn't affect all classes the same way, never bring it back. On to your other points:

    - The trinket nerf was a major way in which they reduced burst without making the trinkets worthless and it was a great way of doing it. It's something like 2000 less of a primary stat for burst, which is huge. It's actually a way of reducing CD stacking without imposing 30 second overlap penalties on them.

    - I agree that instant CC is out of control and so do they. Yay for everyone being on the same page

    - Adding more DR's or changing DR's may or may not backfire, which is why they said they are being very cautious with it. Some classes have too much CC with too little DR, pallies are a great example for this with BL, HoJ and Repentance not sharing a single DR. Force a trinket on the healer and a skilled paladin can lock the guy down for 20+ seconds without any help.

    - Blinding Light doesn't need to be taken out of the game, let's try to stay away from such extremes. Give it the Hungering Cold treatment and you're golden as it's essentially the same thing (Hint: Hungering Cold was a Frost DK talent in Cata that was severely OP, instantly freezing anyone in range, got changed to have a cast time, making it far more balanced).

    - Warlocks need to spec for Howl now so removing it is really out of the question. Sure it's instant but we also don't have Coil or Shadowfury if we take it. Warriors did get their CD increased in 5.1, unless that was reverted. Priests don't have a single target fear and actually don't have any single target CC, so removing PS would be a huge nerf and pointless.

    - As a Warlock that wants a balanced game and not just be the OP FOTM class, I agree that Blood Fear needs to go. They did say they are redesigning it so I'm pretty happy.

    - As for the other instant CC's, yes stuns should be instant, but some stuns need to have an increased CD. Shockwave is dumb and allows for far too much control since it's AoE. The issue with removing all this instant OP CC is that you leave a lot of classes hanging without it. Warriors don't have Throwdown anymore, so Shockwave is their only way of locking a target down for any amount of time. The same goes for Feral Druids. Yes, instant clones are OP. They are also the only reliable CC a Feral Druid has. Maim is the same thing as Kidney Shot, but Rogues have far higher energy regen and combo point generation, meaning they don't lose out nearly as much damage by using Kidney as a Feral using Maim.

    - I'm sorry but your idea of bringing the old revenge mechanic back and into all instant CC's isn't really all that great. Such CC needs to be nerfed yes, but this kind of change would mean classes could never CC healers properly. Simply add a cast time to Blinding Light and that issue is fixed. Blood Fear is getting reworked. I'm not even sure about Clones and I don't think they are that OP. Sure they can't be dispelled, but they already have a 20 yard range which is rather short and also mean you can't swap to that target. On top of that, they are the ONLY thing leaving Ferals viable, as Ferals have really no CC without them. Pounce doesn't count btw, and as I mentioned before, Maim is shitty cause of shitty energy regen and combo point generation.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 03:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kharyll View Post
    I am sooooo close to quit wow until a better patch for PvP arrives. The amount of burst is worse than WotLK and it made me quit until Cata.

    Ghostcrawler's argument "We don't want to do complete overhauls in order not to irritate the playerbase" is so invalid, because the literally anything would irritate me less than the current state of the burst in PvP. I don't want to wait 2 more years until I play the game I was enjoying quite a bit until very recently. But if I am forced by this weird strategy to do so, well, I guess that's what I am going to do.

    I would like to warn Blizzard about this strategy though, I can't guarantee if I am coming back after 2 years of not playing the game and I am not going to put up with 2 years of constant frustration.

    If the game requires such an overhaul, then maybe that expansion shouldn't have been released before the issues were addressed in the first place.
    QQ much?

    Blizz has been addressing PvP issues since MoP launched and has actually put about 10 times the effort towards fixing PvP in this expansion as they have in the past. Burst isn't nearly as bad anymore, and you seem to be just crying cause well you want to cry.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    QQ much?

    Blizz has been addressing PvP issues since MoP launched and has actually put about 10 times the effort towards fixing PvP in this expansion as they have in the past. Burst isn't nearly as bad anymore, and you seem to be just crying cause well you want to cry.
    When it comes to PvP I can't even play my affliction warlock or my rogue, or can't even bother the monk class which happens to be the expansion's main feature. And guess what's in common in all of these cases: Lack of burst, according to you which isn't as bad anymore. Then tell me what is good instead?

  16. #16
    Field Marshal Mohyoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kharyll View Post
    When it comes to PvP I can't even play my affliction warlock or my rogue, or can't even bother the monk class which happens to be the expansion's main feature. And guess what's in common in all of these cases: Lack of burst, according to you which isn't as bad anymore. Then tell me what is good instead?
    after the healing hot fix affliction lock paired with another dot class, according to AJ, - dk/shadow piest and dot comps as general are coming back so it is all about gear now. I met affliction lock/s piest in 2s at 1900mmr and was impossible to beat as BM hunt/ret - both classes have insane burst and lock was just destroying us with dots and insane healing

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