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  1. #1

    Add PvP/PvE Trees

    Make a PvE "tree" with according stats and a separate PvP "tree" .

    Now pl0x.

    In all seriousness though who agree's?

  2. #2
    Warchief MickM's Avatar
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    I don't agree. Trees are pretty clear nowadays. A lot of talents can be better for PVP and PVE. If you desperatly want a PVP-spec, maybe you're trying to blame the spec for something else?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MickM View Post
    I don't agree. Trees are pretty clear nowadays. A lot of talents can be better for PVP and PVE. If you desperatly want a PVP-spec, maybe you're trying to blame the spec for something else?
    Well what I fully meant was stats for spells and abilities would be scaled differently not so much the first post i made that was just off of randomness until i noticed what i said.

  4. #4
    If we didn't have the diluted talent trees we have now, I'd agree, but considering that it's pretty obvious what is useful and where (Slowing in pve for DKs? Or a Stun/Mini sprint). I personally just want spells and abilities to react differently in PvE and PvP. That way you can have 1001 new and exciting tools to use in PvE to make all your Shaslaying dreams an epic reality and PvP can finally be on the road towards balance.
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  5. #5
    Warchief Kuthe's Avatar
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    Rift tried.
    It just doesn't work.
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

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  6. #6
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    How would you handle world PvP? PvP talents don't kick in until you flag? Only work in PvP gear?

    It would certainly work for closed PvP like BG and Arenas but it wouldn't work that well for open PvP. And that is part of the problem and the reason why Blizzard hasn't taken this approach. Because the more you complicate the system the hard it is. Right now everyone can know how every ability works all the time. The more conditionals you add to how or why something works one way during X and one way during Y just adds complexity that can be overwhelming for many.

    If its gear based you could still use PvP talents in PvE encounters and vice versa. So it solves nothing. It could be flag based but then how do you handle the initial flag in the open world? The spell casted while not flagged changes function as soon as it hits? Or does it work under its PvE function since stuff is currently calculated at cast and not at hit.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    Rift tried.
    It just doesn't work.
    And GW2 split some of their abilities for PvP and in GW1 every spell was split almost, it works out perfectly...

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adominitis View Post
    Make a PvE "tree" with according stats and a separate PvP "tree" .

    Now pl0x.

    In all seriousness though who agree's?
    Stupid idea.. Better, just remove PvP completely..
    It was added in a patch, and can easily be removed in one too...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Stupid idea.. Better, just remove PvP completely..
    It was added in a oatch, and caneasily be removed in one too...
    Actually, PvP was there from the beginning. Before the patch that brought BGs, players farmed honor in Hillsbrad Foothills between Southshore and Tarren Mill.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by roflatorlunde View Post
    And GW2 split some of their abilities for PvP and in GW1 every spell was split almost, it works out perfectly...
    splitting abilities works. but getting a pure pvp tree won't work

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Adominitis View Post
    Make a PvE "tree" with according stats and a separate PvP "tree" .

    Now pl0x.

    In all seriousness though who agree's?
    No one agrees. No one but rogues maybe, they always had sub tree as sort of pvp spec.

    Lets say they will create separate pvp spec for druids.
    What kind of pvp spec it will be? Melee dps tree? Ranged dps spec? Healer spec? Whatever you choose, you will break the pvp for players of two other specs.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    How would you handle world PvP? PvP talents don't kick in until you flag? Only work in PvP gear?

    It would certainly work for closed PvP like BG and Arenas but it wouldn't work that well for open PvP. And that is part of the problem and the reason why Blizzard hasn't taken this approach. Because the more you complicate the system the hard it is. Right now everyone can know how every ability works all the time. The more conditionals you add to how or why something works one way during X and one way during Y just adds complexity that can be overwhelming for many.

    If its gear based you could still use PvP talents in PvE encounters and vice versa. So it solves nothing. It could be flag based but then how do you handle the initial flag in the open world? The spell casted while not flagged changes function as soon as it hits? Or does it work under its PvE function since stuff is currently calculated at cast and not at hit.
    They had to solve this problem for the +pvp damage stat, so there's no reason it shouldn't work (and only "difficulty" is healing, but the "default to pvp" option isn't too bad). I don't think it'd take a really big change to the game engine to implement it (it's not trivial, but it's doable).

    I totally agree with the "it would make the game even more complex for new player" though, because either they'll have to "double" tooltips which are already hard enough to understand by new player (I remember reading for the first time the new talents on my alt druid, I felt like "wtf is this thing supposed to do, why does it take so long to explain, where is the relevant part ?!"), or "hide it" (so tooltip keep reasonable length/complexity and new player aren't lost), but then they won't understand why the spell doesn't match what's written when they try it in BG/arena.

  13. #13
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    No one agrees. No one but rogues maybe, they always had sub tree as sort of pvp spec.

    Lets say they will create separate pvp spec for druids.
    What kind of pvp spec it will be? Melee dps tree? Ranged dps spec? Healer spec? Whatever you choose, you will break the pvp for players of two other specs.
    Apperently I do not agree...

    OT: Yeah i think it would be good would just be hard to impliment due to problems with world pvp like rhorle said.

  14. #14
    And how exactly won't this fuck up the game more?

    I mean we already have balancing issues.
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  15. #15
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    splitting abilities works. but getting a pure pvp tree won't work
    what Loki said, Splitting abilities is easy & i dont understand why Blizzard never did it. But having a tree based around PvE & pvP can be to complects & further ruin any hope of balance.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 05:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    And how exactly won't this fuck up the game more?

    I mean we already have balancing issues.
    Balancing Issues for PvE & PvP, PvP is the main reason why WoW is horribly balanced, PvP community calls for nerfs just because someone is good & can pull alot of juice of there class.

  16. #16
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adominitis View Post
    Make a PvE "tree" with according stats and a separate PvP "tree" .

    Now pl0x.

    In all seriousness though who agree's?
    Dear player,

    We read this.

    Thx, Blizz.

    In all seriousness....maybe they will at one point include some sort of pvp platform were all classes are stripped down to the same basic stats and fight naked without any abilities and just bow and arrow for everyone. Kinda a conuterstrike mini-game? I mean..why do you think a pvp tree would be more balanced. There would be the very same gear, resilience and wtf class x is overpowered topics.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 11:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post

    PvP community calls for nerfs just because someone is good & can pull alot of juice of there class.
    I disagree. It is usually "class x just beat me. Nerf class x, boost my class, kkthxbye". Considering EVERY class (and pretty much every specc) has these kind of complaining topics, that sounds like they are balanced in QQ.... It is not even as if your "PvP community" agrees on anything. Everybody has their own idea what "balance" means and how it can be achieved.
    Last edited by det; 2012-12-18 at 10:37 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    Actually, PvP was there from the beginning. Before the patch that brought BGs, players farmed honor in Hillsbrad Foothills between Southshore and Tarren Mill.
    Honor and HK's didn't exist until the patch before the bg patch.
    *broken link*
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  18. #18
    You can have the same tree and abilities just make it so certain abilities hit harder or weaker against players and harder against NPCS

  19. #19
    trees have nothing to do with pve or pvp - they just give you everything, only difference comes from talents(where you have perfect choice) and gear.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Honor and HK's didn't exist until the patch before the bg patch.
    Hm, curious. I wonder why people PvP'ed back then in that case ;o I've only ever heard that PvPing there was a substitute for set pvp areas, such as BGs.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

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