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  1. #1

    Patch 5.1 Hot Fix 12/11/12 The End of Hybrids?

    Let me first say that I play a shadow priest at 2200cr with full mal and t2. Currently I have 375k hp with out fort on.

    1.) Before patch 5.1 my flash heals hit for 60k (16%)
    2.) After patch 5.1 my flash heals hit for 44k (12%)
    3.) After hot fix 12/11/12 my flash heals hit for 33k (9%)

    Now granted 60k was most likely too strong, but we're now only doing half of our previous healing. The amount of healing is so low now it's hardly worth a gcd and mana. I fear it will only get worse as the expansion goes on. Each season damage will get higer, but off healing will barley change from where it is now. The only scaling is int. I'm not sure if hybrids will remain competitive, at least in the long run. Personaly I would like to see hybrids get 25-50% of pvp power scale for healing.

    With my gear I have 54% pvp power.

    1.) I get 25% of the effect or (54%*25%)= 13.5%. A very small amount, but my flash heal would go up to 37k (10%)
    2.) I get 50% of the effect or (54%*50%)= 27%. A bigger amount, my flash heal would go up to 42k (11%)

    My main concern is viablity and long term scaling. Weather you agree with the change to pvp power or not, do you think hybrids will remain competitive or will pure dps kill us?

    Edit:

    • Secondary Idea: PvP power now increases the amount of healing done, but also inceases the mana cost of healing spells for non main spec healers.
    • Example: 55% pvp power now makes off heals 55% stronger, but increases mana cost by 55%.
    • Purpose of Change: Allows hybrids to do decent off healing, but greatly limits the number of heals they can provide.
    • Possible Problems: Melee hybrids have very small mana pools and might not be able to do more than 1-2 heals.
      Some players may prefer smaller, more frequent heals and dislike being forced into higher mana cost.
    Last edited by Highmoon7; 2012-12-13 at 08:01 PM.

  2. #2
    To be honest as a DPS spec I don't think you should be that worried at all about how much you are healing for. Blizz tries to balance the game around 3's so most of the general time they assume competitive players are going to be running with a healer and want them to focus on keeping the team up and the DPS just try to migate as much of the damage as possible while trying to get a kill. I think that if you're class/spec seems to be suffering that blizz should compensate it with maybe buffing a defensive CD or giving you another one, but giving a hybrid a heal that there able to spam is kinda ridiculous. (Unless its useless ofcourse) :P

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    To be honest as a DPS spec I don't think you should be that worried at all about how much you are healing for. Blizz tries to balance the game around 3's so most of the general time they assume competitive players are going to be running with a healer and want them to focus on keeping the team up and the DPS just try to migate as much of the damage as possible while trying to get a kill. I think that if you're class/spec seems to be suffering that blizz should compensate it with maybe buffing a defensive CD or giving you another one, but giving a hybrid a heal that there able to spam is kinda ridiculous. (Unless its useless ofcourse) :P
    The problem is that this is only the theorey. Enhancer were before 5.1 weak and their off healing was wak (50k every 10 -20 secs).

    And healing from pure dds is even higher. Hunters Warriors, in every ones thinking real dps, but have more self heal than some offhealing speccs already had.

  4. #4
    Warriors, Rogues, Warlocks... all healing the same if not more than Hybrids now - and the pures are normally compensated for not having heals by given bigger CDs than DPS Shamans / DPS Druids etc.

    An interesting fix would be letting hybrid healers heal themselves for the full amount and only apply the nerfs to the healing when it's on other party members.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    An interesting fix would be letting hybrid healers heal themselves for the full amount and only apply the nerfs to the healing when it's on other party members.
    60k spammable heal as a DPS? that required a nerf.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Warriors, Rogues, Warlocks... all healing the same if not more than Hybrids now - and the pures are normally compensated for not having heals by given bigger CDs than DPS Shamans / DPS Druids etc.

    An interesting fix would be letting hybrid healers heal themselves for the full amount and only apply the nerfs to the healing when it's on other party members.
    7.7k ticks every 3 secs yea rogue healing is as good as hybrids sure...... Why do people think this 30% healing debuff doesn't do anything to % heals?
    Last edited by wow; 2012-12-12 at 11:26 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    7.7k ticks every 3 secs yea rogue healing is as good as hybrids. Why do people think this 30% healing debuff doesn't do anything to % heals?
    This +1 looking forward to a brighter future for ze rogue

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    60k spammable heal as a DPS? that required a nerf.
    Kick the heal and GG. It's not like interrupts are ever used on healers anymore.

  9. #9
    By Blizzard's definition, Hybrid simply means that your class has the ability to spec to something other than damage. That's it.
    The only pure DPS classes: warlocks, mages, rogues, hunters. ALL the other classes are hybrids.

    So OP your title is not only incorrect (you should have meant healing hybrids), but you also assume something that isn't there.

    Hybrid doesn't mean that your off-healing is supposed to be as good as a full-specced and geared healer.
    Hybrid doesn't even guarantee that your off-healing is supposed to be any good in your damage spec.

    If you want more off-healing power, gem more Int and less PVP power. It's supposed to be a trade-off, instead of getting boosted both damage and healing before 5.1 with PVP power (the most important stat for PVP) which made off-healing way too powerful.
    Last edited by corebit; 2012-12-13 at 01:24 AM.

  10. #10
    At least Shadow priest have the mana pool to throw out heals. Ret paladins can only do two flash of light heals before you go oom and if you want to use WoG you are giving up your damage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    At least Shadow priest have the mana pool to throw out heals. Ret paladins can only do two flash of light heals before you go oom and if you want to use WoG you are giving up your damage.
    To be fair, SPs can only spam like 5 flash heals before going OOM too. It's better than Rets but not by much.
    And mana pool is rather important to SPs unlike Warlocks or Mages who never go OOM during damage phase.

  12. #12
    I resubbed, logged in with my enhance shaman, dueled a monk, used a 5 stack msw that healed for 25k, logged off, unsubbed.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohnburger View Post
    I resubbed, logged in with my enhance shaman, dueled a monk, used a 5 stack msw that healed for 25k, logged off, unsubbed.
    This was actually funny lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  14. #14
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Kick the heal and GG. It's not like interrupts are ever used on healers anymore.
    While I agree that people who cry and complain are sometimes substandard in their play and how to use interrupts and cc, To me its more the balance of random of say random bg's when say you get 3 or more healers in a 10 man bg. With so many healers its impossible because healers are basically bouncing heals and dispels off each other. I mean you would have to have great communication and teamwork in a rated/arena to cc that much healing. In a team full of cluster-fudge people its annoying.

    Mind you with you don't know how many dang bots you have on a team these days but when I step in and see other team with 3 plus heals and we have less its easily a loss for the team with less healers. So again I have a problem with how many healers. Hybrid healing was crazy I'll agree with that.

  15. #15
    Imo some don't understand that overall healing nerf and pvp power healing nerfs are hitting some classes pretty hard, whille top dogs are staying the same.

    Take a look on retri - you take retri becouse of team support he provides, simply becouse other classes offer more control/dmg. Also ret is a spec based around active defence - selfhealing and with it nerfed more then twofold it's a nobrainer to train them start to finish (same as before) for better results then ever. SPs offhealing needed to be toned down, but no other hybrid had ability to heal non stop like SPs - ench/ret offhealing was based around procs/special resources, ele/boomkin offhealing was nowhere close to SPs. But instead of reworking SPs offhealing, Blizz nerfed supporting capabilities of all hybrid classes without taking a look at their perfomance overall.

    And after offhealing nerfs SPs remained the strongest caster hybrid whille ferals remained the strongest melee hybrid (becouse they don't give a single fuck about offhealing and just ride target day to night throwing instant cyclone here and there). Comparative power between hybrids didn't change becouse PvP power change wasn't well thought and targeted more specs then needed.

  16. #16
    Field Marshal Koa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarke View Post
    60k spammable heal as a DPS? that required a nerf.
    if they are able to spam it then the person letting them spam needs to just not be in PvP at all.
    Tauren are the only race that produce the proper sound effects when you use the '/moo' emote.
    /moo'ing since the beginning of march 2004 in the closed World of Warcraft beta.
    Taurens>Gnomes>Trolls>Orcs>Worgens.
    Druid>Shaman>Rogue>Mage.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Kick the heal and GG. It's not like interrupts are ever used on healers anymore.
    And gg what? You're going to lock out a shadow priest out of holy school for 5 seconds with an ability on a 15s cd. GG indeed.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Koa View Post
    if they are able to spam it then the person letting them spam needs to just not be in PvP at all.
    Yeh he should lock sp and forget about healer spaming for even more? Or spread 2 dd in 3v3 between healer and SP and try to bring them down? And what if either healer or sp fakecast an interrupt? Think their 3d buddy standing still? Seriously what're you even defending...

    The problem of flash spam could be easilly remedied with mana increase of spell for shadow spec, introducing some sort of procing buff for flash activation or even puting minor cd on it. Blizz had months to find a proper solution to the problem and instead simply flat out nerfed every hybrid healing, good job as always.

  19. #19
    Still some classes like,Retri paladins and Enhancment shamans are destroyed and lost their classic def mechanic, meanwhile some other classes remain OP with or without def mechanics. If u were mad for a Retri Paladin doing big heals BUT spending his dmg through Holly Power and u still cant get it then imo u deserve OP classes beating u all the time.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    Blizzard should have made so that casted heals on hybrids couldnt crit in pvp instead of these nerfs imo.

    Yes its stupidly overpowered when a spriest critheals over 100k on a flash light, but i guess, noncrit plus the first nerf would be OK.
    OP spells at Ashran? Based on faction population? Yes, WODs gonna be the most awesome expansion ever! Propably gonna hit under 4 million sub mark.

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