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  1. #1

    Seal of Insight buffed or just scaling very well?

    I played around with Seal of Insight on a dummy recently, and I'm noticing it's procing much bigger heals than the last time I checked. The scaling of the heal on hit seems to be very high, even the proc from Dancing Steel seems to take the heal from 5-6k per hit to 7k+, with all cooldowns popped each proc heals for 11k... it also does not seem to be affected by any of the recent healing nerfs, neither the PvP power nerf or the Battle fatigue nerf.

    The same goes for Glyph of Battle healer... it was never affected by PvP power, so now that PvP healing was nerfed for Ret, the Glyph and the Seal have received a very high relative boost, not to mention the above discussed excellent scaling. Anyway, I'm sure it's not too significant for PvP, but it's something during these dark days of Ret healing.

  2. #2
    I've been thinking about testing SoI with battle healer in a raid environment but never got to it. Anyone who have tried it and know if it gives anything or is just shit?

    If they're just gonna keep Ret DPS low they might as well give us the mobility other hybrids have with Vampiric Embrace/Guidance/Tranquility. Give us something like a passive Ret talent that buffs SoI healing and let us benefit from the spell haste during wings (to make up for switching from SoT) AND make it double-dip with the dmg/healing increase you get from AW (if it's not already doing it)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I've been thinking about testing SoI with battle healer in a raid environment but never got to it. Anyone who have tried it and know if it gives anything or is just shit?

    If they're just gonna keep Ret DPS low they might as well give us the mobility other hybrids have with Vampiric Embrace/Guidance/Tranquility. Give us something like a passive Ret talent that buffs SoI healing and let us benefit from the spell haste during wings (to make up for switching from SoT) AND make it double-dip with the dmg/healing increase you get from AW (if it's not already doing it)
    I would assume that it wouldn't be worth it. I main prot and battle healer REALLY stands out with full vengeance, especially during heroism/etc phases. However for you to switch to Insight during one of these phases and losing that much DPS isn't worth it, unless a healing cooldown is needed (yes, it is that good).

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shivala View Post
    I would assume that it wouldn't be worth it. I main prot and battle healer REALLY stands out with full vengeance, especially during heroism/etc phases. However for you to switch to Insight during one of these phases and losing that much DPS isn't worth it, unless a healing cooldown is needed (yes, it is that good).
    I was just curious about the actualy numbers you would be able to pump out. It's obvious that it's not viable for Rets to use this in PvP/PvE.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I was just curious about the actualy numbers you would be able to pump out. It's obvious that it's not viable for Rets to use this in PvP/PvE.
    Well it was always an option for Rets when they were getting trained, and due to all other healing being nerfed, and good scaling, it's moving a bit closer to being a viable defensive tool.

  6. #6
    snip: pve nerd shit

    In a pvp situation, I've only used seal of insight in the most dire of circumstances, and it usually didn't save me.

    glyphs like turn evil, double jeopardy and templar's verdict trump battle healer for me, and even if I wanted to use battle healer, the amount of times the glyph would actually get used would be such a pitiful amount that it'd hardly be worth it
    Last edited by mmmmmmmBacon; 2012-12-13 at 05:09 AM.

  7. #7
    not as ret. But as prot its brilliant at the end of a fight you can almost reach the same hps as healers, its very good support when the healers starts to get abit low on mana.

  8. #8
    It wasn't changed in any way, a month ago i got the same heals as now (a bit lower cause of gear ofc.)
    I use it alot while questing for i dont care about mobs living a bit longer if i dont have to use time/hp to heal at all.
    Battle healer for ret is rarely worth it, but it has it's uses.
    I use it on elegon last phase where it heals for huge amounts and on HOF second boss when healers are still running etc.
    Not worth using in regular raiding though, it's rarely more then 10k hps. Range is too small.
    In PVP you can use it, but not to save your ass when you're already low - but it delays that point for a while in some circumstances.
    Last edited by Envar; 2012-12-13 at 07:26 AM.

  9. #9
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmmmmmBacon View Post
    snip: pve nerd shit
    Yeah, that's not cool. Let's try to not bash either side of the game, okay?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I was just curious about the actualy numbers you would be able to pump out.
    I'm stuck in a... casual guild to say the least and sometimes I help out with battle insight. Here is a sample:

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sy...?s=6423&e=6832

    Around 20k hps with 62k dps

  11. #11
    High Overlord Codyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Yeah, that's not cool. Let's try to not bash either side of the game, okay?
    But how else will everyone know that he's better than them??


    You're not helping. Final warning, let's stay on topic please. - Malthanis
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2012-12-13 at 04:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkcrusader View Post
    I'm stuck in a... casual guild to say the least and sometimes I help out with battle insight. Here is a sample:

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sy...?s=6423&e=6832

    Around 20k hps with 62k dps
    Oh there are situations when that can be vastly exceeded, such as Stone Guard heroic or normal windlord.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=6371&e=6816
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=6371&e=6816

    Note our Paladin does about 45k hps. In the first phase when he has all the adds on him he is doing the vast majority of the healing. This tails off as more of the adds die. Note on the second log he also does 180k dps. There are certain fights where Vengeance essentially turns Prot Paladins into healers and dps as well as a tank. It's only a couple of fights but it is insane on those fights.

  13. #13
    To return to Seal of Insight or Battle Healer in Ret PvP... yes it's still probably quite situational, but people who have not tried it in a month or two should give it a look; as I said earlier, since neither effect seems to rely on PvP power and do not seem affected by Battle Fatigue (correct me on this if I'm wrong I'm trying to test currently; Seal procs are definitely not affected, not sure about Battle Healer) their relative power has gone up considerably compared to other heals, not to mention they both scale quite well.

    I could be biased because I'm human and use two PvP dps trinkets; when the chance on hit trinket procs, the healing of Seal of Insight can goes up as much as 50% per swing, and given the trinket's high up-time, as well as Dancing Steel Procs, the on-use trinket, and my engineering gloves... I'm getting healed for an average of 7-8k per proc with spikes of up to 14k per proc with all cooldowns up... given how much our other heals have been nerfed, this means these procs can heal for as much as a Word of Glory in less than 10 seconds, with Battle Healer my partners can get roughly the same healing.

    Seal of Insight is also not really the massive dps loss that it seems to be, less globals spent on healing, obviously means more dps, in addition a crit TV can heal your partners for almost as much as a non crit Word of Glory depending on your gear; and of course, your healing is increased by 5%, the 10% haste helps when you have to hard cast Flash of Light, and is also great if you take Repent. Yes, it's situational, but I'm starting to feel that switching to it when needed isn't just a pointless act of delaying the inevitable, like it used to be. Both damage and healing have been nerfed quite a bit since launch, and so these effect are now much stronger, relatively.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkcrusader View Post
    I'm stuck in a... casual guild to say the least and sometimes I help out with battle insight. Here is a sample:

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-sy...?s=6423&e=6832

    Around 20k hps with 62k dps
    Not as bad as I had expected. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Oh there are situations when that can be vastly exceeded, such as Stone Guard heroic or normal windlord.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=6371&e=6816
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=6371&e=6816

    Note our Paladin does about 45k hps. In the first phase when he has all the adds on him he is doing the vast majority of the healing. This tails off as more of the adds die. Note on the second log he also does 180k dps. There are certain fights where Vengeance essentially turns Prot Paladins into healers and dps as well as a tank. It's only a couple of fights but it is insane on those fights.
    Most tanks run SoI with battle healer and it's really good. I was asking how good it is for Ret and elaborating on changes that could make it more viable.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Yeah, that's not cool. Let's try to not bash either side of the game, okay?
    I posted originally with thoughts for pve, and retracted them when I realized it was a thread about the pvp uses of the ability.

    Why get so defensive about it, when it's clear that we're all nerds discussing a video game that's 8 years old on a forum? Especially when you're not very accomplished in that aspect of the game either.

    more on topic...

    It would be nice seeing Rets get a talent to buff Seal of Insight...possibly increasing it's healing output if we had taken x amount of damage in the past 10 seconds, giving us a sort of defensive stance/blood presence without the damage reduction, but it's unlikely knowing blizzard. This isn't the first time they've gutted something about ret and withheld compensation for a patch or two (in regard to the pvp power nerf and battle fatigue increase).
    Last edited by mmmmmmmBacon; 2012-12-14 at 03:49 AM.

  16. #16
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmmmmmBacon View Post
    I posted originally with thoughts for pve, and retracted them when I realized it was a thread about the pvp uses of the ability.

    Why get so defensive about it, when it's clear that we're all nerds discussing a video game that's 8 years old on a forum? Especially when you're not very accomplished in that aspect of the game either.
    It just seemed to come of as derogatory to PvE content, so I apologize for my misunderstanding.

    They don't necessarily need to give compensation for every change. To be honest, it's probably a little too early to expect anything like that for the PvP Power change, too. That being said, I don't see SoInsight or Battle Healer changing their numbers any time soon, so they might look a bit more attractive as they tone down healing in PvP (they said they'd go after damage as well, so that could be an indirect nerf to BH).

    Using BH would be more effective in arenas, I would think. The fewer the targets, the more healing per target and such. Although I would think that a Ret paladin would be a primary target in an arena fight, because it makes sense to remove healing from the enemy team. So I suppose it would all depend on how effective you could make it.

  17. #17
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    try this with HotR if u have multiple targets. u get heal from every target then.. In a pack of 5 in a hc (as prot) with about 80k vengeance my total self heal from 1 HotR was 200k.. basicly heals for more than the dmg I take in hc's.. healers might get bored.. but I really find this funny

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    It's quite funny to use seal of insight as ret or prot soloing things or tanking in LFR outhealing healers with auto attacks and hammer of the righteous :P It scales really well weith AP/SP and should be used by tankadins in aoe pulls.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    It's quite funny to use seal of insight as ret or prot soloing things or tanking in LFR outhealing healers with auto attacks and hammer of the righteous :P It scales really well weith AP/SP and should be used by tankadins ALWAYS.
    Fixed that for you.

  20. #20
    SoI is pretty awesome for AoE grinding as either Ret or Prot because it'll keep you nearly topped off, even with a few things smacking you in the face. As Prot with GoBH, it can get pretty silly once you hit heroic mode bosses and Vengeance just shoots up. I've outhealed healers in 10M on certain fights because of how much healing SoI + GoBH + SS can do with that much attack power.

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