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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanderhuge View Post
    SoI is pretty awesome for AoE grinding as either Ret or Prot because it'll keep you nearly topped off, even with a few things smacking you in the face. As Prot with GoBH, it can get pretty silly once you hit heroic mode bosses and Vengeance just shoots up. I've outhealed healers in 10M on certain fights because of how much healing SoI + GoBH + SS can do with that much attack power.
    Yeah solo tanked windlord for the first time last night, topped heals and damage meters (20% of damage done, 36% of healing done).

    Vengeance + SoI + Haste Build = Trollololol

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    Yeah solo tanked windlord for the first time last night, topped heals and damage meters (20% of damage done, 36% of healing done).

    Vengeance + SoI + Haste Build = Trollololol
    Nerfed, no more soi procs off hotr nova, say goodbye to 36% healing.

  3. #23
    Boy are dailies gonna be fun with Seal of Insight being practically useless or what?

    I'm guessing no.

  4. #24
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tax View Post
    Nerfed, no more soi procs off hotr nova, say goodbye to 36% healing.
    What the fuck since when and why? Paste change please.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    What the fuck since when and why? Paste change please.
    From EJ:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    At some point since Ronark posted his findings on Blizz's official forums, SoJ no longer hits multiple targets through HotR and neither does SoI. A very brief run against the two non-raid dummies at Shrine of Seven Stars consisting of 7 white hits and 6 uses of HotR (18 total HotR hits) yielded 13 SoJ hits.

    Why? 'Cause GC's in charge and his philosophy on Paladins is, "To the ground, baby!"
    Shitty change is shitty, solo tanking windlord 25 was awesome (450k dps/100k hps with all adds, 325/65 at end of fight), and it made CMs pretty cake as well.

    No blue post on the topic yet admitting the change, but its certainly live. While I don't blame Ronark, given that he was looking into why SoJ was/was not proccing on certain mechanics (given that SoR is absofuckinglutely worthless, but that's another topic), it does suck to have what felt like our "signature niche" ripped away secretly overnight. Obv, will still use SoI, but no more ludicrous contributions to healing.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2012-12-18 at 05:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    What the fuck since when and why? Paste change please.
    This is very sad. I just tested it and it is right. No more SoI chain heals. That's, frankly, bullshit.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    This is very sad. I just tested it and it is right. No more SoI chain heals. That's, frankly, bullshit.
    Brilliantly useful as it was I'm sure it wasn't intentional that Prot Paladins were able to put out more healing just by passive healing than actual dedicated healers.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 05:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Shitty change is shitty, solo tanking windlord 25 was awesome (450k dps/100k hps with all adds, 325/65 at end of fight), and it made CMs pretty cake as well.
    You've answered your own question on why it was nerfed there. It was fine in ordinary encounters, just not multiple add, silly vengeance encounters.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Brilliantly useful as it was I'm sure it wasn't intentional that Prot Paladins were able to put out more healing just by passive healing than actual dedicated healers.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 05:51 PM ----------


    You've answered your own question on why it was nerfed there. It was fine in ordinary encounters, just not multiple add, silly vengeance encounters.
    True, but what about ret? Seal of Justice being applied to every target was hardly OP, and Seal of Insight would never in a lifetime save a ret from 5-9 furious boss mobs trying to rip you a new one. Seems like ret once again is considered collateral damage and ignored.

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Brilliantly useful as it was I'm sure it wasn't intentional that Prot Paladins were able to put out more healing just by passive healing than actual dedicated healers.

    You've answered your own question on why it was nerfed there. It was fine in ordinary encounters, just not multiple add, silly vengeance encounters.
    I'm pretty sure all heals scale with vengeance well on fights involving multiple mobs. Prot for a survival standpoint didn't seem more OP than other tank specs.

    The reason it was healing for more was in a large part because of the battle healer glyph, that glyph deserved a nerf, but I'd say nerfing the seal to the ground sounds pretty silly and knee-jerk.

  10. #30
    I'd say nerfing the seal to the ground sounds pretty silly and knee-jerk.
    Sounds like par for the course.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Sounds like par for the course.
    Ya, now our damage, self heals and utility are as good as all the other tanks. Oh wait...
    Last edited by Thyranne; 2012-12-19 at 12:36 AM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    but I'd say nerfing the seal to the ground sounds pretty silly and knee-jerk.
    Silly and knee-jerk has been accurate for as long as I played a paladin.

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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    This is very sad. I just tested it and it is right. No more SoI chain heals. That's, frankly, bullshit.
    Well, there goes my weekly solo of General Vezax as ret...
    You won't find an expanded version of my avatar here.

  14. #34

  15. #35
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasstapp View Post
    True, but what about ret? Seal of Justice being applied to every target was hardly OP, and Seal of Insight would never in a lifetime save a ret from 5-9 furious boss mobs trying to rip you a new one. Seems like ret once again is considered collateral damage and ignored.
    If the change was made with no real announcement, then it was most likely something that was completely unintended in the first place. It doesn't matter that they didn't immediately and publicly say "this is a bug", it simply did not rank high on their list of stuff to deal with.

    There's no 'collateral damage' because it wasn't supposed to happen in the first place.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    You've answered your own question on why it was nerfed there. It was fine in ordinary encounters, just not multiple add, silly vengeance encounters.
    I was replying to someone else asking why the change was implemented. Trust me, I'm not confused as to why it was nerfed, just saddened as it was a very cool and rewarding gameplay mechanic for strategic use of cooldowns. It was only really relevant in one encounter in t14 (so far) and challenge modes.

    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    I'm pretty sure all heals scale with vengeance well on fights involving multiple mobs. Prot for a survival standpoint didn't seem more OP than other tank specs.

    The reason it was healing for more was in a large part because of the battle healer glyph, that glyph deserved a nerf, but I'd say nerfing the seal to the ground sounds pretty silly and knee-jerk.
    Sadly, incorrect. The glyph still functions 100% as normal. The nerf applies to SoI procc'ing on every hit of HotR ONLY. This is a HUGE nerf to prot survival/self heal on any fight of 2+ mobs (obviously scaling the higher you go, i.e. Windlord). For most any prot, your heal breakdown should be approx 40% Sac Shield, 40% SoI, 15-20% GoBH and 0-5% WOG on a given encounter.

    The glyph is far from OP outside of gimmick encounters (Elegon phase 3). This nerf hits CM tanks hard, as my HotR USED to heal for ~10-30k SoI per mob hit with high vengeance, now only heals for that x1. Ergo, in a 6, 7, 10 pull I would survive BETTER with more mobs, whereas now we are far more fragile.

    Even without the old SoI mechanics, I was still 3rd or 4th on healing on heroic dogs last night, but that's ~33% lower than it should have been, had HotR splash still been working.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2012-12-19 at 02:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    If the change was made with no real announcement, then it was most likely something that was completely unintended in the first place. It doesn't matter that they didn't immediately and publicly say "this is a bug", it simply did not rank high on their list of stuff to deal with.

    There's no 'collateral damage' because it wasn't supposed to happen in the first place.
    Paladins seem to be having a lot of these "bugs" lately, do you actually have any proof that this was a bug, or did you just pull that out of thin air?

  18. #38
    Well for one it depends on gear (hit expertise too) if your well enough geared threat won't ever be an issue (shouldn't be anyway). I find the best thing to do is switch seals cause your never going to get the best out of them unless you do. Low damage phases and for pull I always have truth up, for high damage or to help healing I switch to SoI when I need or want more damage it's back to Truth. One fight that's a good example although not exactly end game anymore is elagon. Using battle healer with SoI plus the buff the boss gives is insane amount of healing and when your not on the boss u can use truth or for the start of the second phase.

    Yes SoI scales very well and battle healer is really decent, plus the scaling with vengence makes it insane. However it is a dps loss so it's not like it's completely free healing. It is I believe a choice.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-19 at 03:57 PM ----------

    Yeap just double checked it's nerfd usual retard blizz they should've nerfd battle healer NOT SoI morons...

  19. #39
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasstapp View Post
    Paladins seem to be having a lot of these "bugs" lately, do you actually have any proof that this was a bug, or did you just pull that out of thin air?
    All seals state that they proc on melee hits. Additionally, SoInsight states that melee attacks give a chance to heal you when you land a melee attack. The nova from HotR (which isn't a melee attack) was giving guaranteed procs (which is statistically impossible, since it happened for every prot paladin) on ever target struck by the nova. Note that this was only occurring with SoInsight and SoJustice for Ret. No multi-procs from the other seals. So only two of four seals (I'm not entirely certain that people care about SoCommand) are proccing on a non-melee attack.

    If that doesn't sound like a bug, I'm not sure of what to call it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    All seals state that they proc on melee hits. Additionally, SoInsight states that melee attacks give a chance to heal you when you land a melee attack. The nova from HotR (which isn't a melee attack) was giving guaranteed procs (which is statistically impossible, since it happened for every prot paladin) on ever target struck by the nova. Note that this was only occurring with SoInsight and SoJustice for Ret. No multi-procs from the other seals. So only two of four seals (I'm not entirely certain that people care about SoCommand) are proccing on a non-melee attack.

    If that doesn't sound like a bug, I'm not sure of what to call it.
    I seem to recall Hammer of the Righteous requiring melee range to be used, that screams melee attack to me. "give a chance" could = 99.99%.

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