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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CausalXXLinkXx View Post
    2 or 3 tank on 10m heroic? If 3 tank, wouldn't you just leave it transformed? if 2 tank, what if the healer is transformed first? Can't exactly leave them up forever.
    2 tank with 1 transformed full time. You could 3 tank, but someone in your raid should be able to hold the Monstrosity during Fling. That's my job as a rogue. When I'm transformed during a Fling, people just do whatever they can to live: kite, drop threat, pop big personal CDs, etc.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    2 tank with 1 transformed full time. You could 3 tank, but someone in your raid should be able to hold the Monstrosity during Fling. That's my job as a rogue. When I'm transformed during a Fling, people just do whatever they can to live: kite, drop threat, pop big personal CDs, etc.
    You leave your 2nd tank transformed full time?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by CausalXXLinkXx View Post
    You leave your 2nd tank transformed full time?
    Yep. 10char

  4. #24
    Does it really matter if you 3 tank it? as surely the DPS requirement isnt so steep that ull hit berserk or something.. ppl are saying u can 3 heal it also, so thats same as 3 tanking really?

    we dont have a rogue, or anyone that can really keep aggro during fling, so will probably go for a 3 tank strat at 1st to practise, then change later if we lack dps

    but all i can tell is that we'll just have a slightly longer p2, and maybe p3... but our druid healer can pop hotw in p3 and become the extra dps ne way

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathruler11 View Post
    Does it really matter if you 3 tank it? as surely the DPS requirement isnt so steep that ull hit berserk or something.. ppl are saying u can 3 heal it also, so thats same as 3 tanking really?

    we dont have a rogue, or anyone that can really keep aggro during fling, so will probably go for a 3 tank strat at 1st to practise, then change later if we lack dps

    but all i can tell is that we'll just have a slightly longer p2, and maybe p3... but our druid healer can pop hotw in p3 and become the extra dps ne way
    3 tank 3 heal 2 tank 2 heal. Doesn't matter as long as you get though phase 2. Phase 3 lasts 30s or so.

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    We put about 15 tries into the boss and we have some problems. 10-man raid, following setup:

    Tanks: DK / Guardian
    DPS: Mage / Moonkin / Warlock / Feral (Or Rogue) / Warrior (Or Rogue) / DK
    Heal: Resto Shaman (Or Pala) / Disci (Or Pala)

    First few tries we played 2 tanks 2 heal - I (DK) would do the construct in p2 and Guardian would tank both in p2. So we push after 4-5 reshapes, depending on whether or not i get in. We had our Feral taunt before Fling so he would get thrown and the Guardian would not. Didn't work that well, one time the Feral had the Boss (Aggro and everything) and the Guardian would still be thrown. One time he would'nt throw for like 2-3 sec after Fling timer was over and he just critted our Feral. He can't survive more than 3 hits non-crit anyhow. Would it be better to have him taunt only after the Guardian got flinged? He would still need to take like 3 hits or sth like that till the stun fades. Seems kinda risky. Would a rogue be better? How can you tank the boss as a rogue (seen it mentioned in this thread a couple of times)? He doesn't have a taunt and stuff and the symbioses growl doesnt seem to work in 10man!?

    We then switched to 3 Tanks (Frost DK switched to Blood). However with 3 Tanks, the transition to p2 seems kinda fucked up. I never know whether or not I would get Reshaped in P1 so we can't really plan a good push into P2. Or should I just stay Reshaped in P1 the first time i get it and just keep soaking puddles all the way to p3? The other 2 Tanks could then tank the boss? Would be better for a controlled push but I read somewhere that your drain more willpower the longer you are reshaped? Is that true? Wouldn't it be really bad to stay longer than needed?

    How many puddles should one drink in P1 anyways? Some posts above mention drink 2, leave 2 as tank in p1 when you're running with 2 tanks. 2 is ideal to keep willpower up till the next tank gets reshaped. But our problem then was, that we had like 8-10 adds alive when we push to P2 cause of the left-over puddle-respawnes and freshly spawned amber scalpel. Is that normal? Is it supposed to be that many blobs?

    So to sum up my questions:

    - How many Drinks in P1 per tank per Reshape? 2 each? Is it normal to have 8-10 Adds alive at the p2 transition then? Our Ranged don't really have much time to do dmg to the elemental/transformed because so many adds are up
    - How do you handle the taunt/fling exactly in P2 with only 1 tank (and 1 in the construct)?
    - If you have 3 Tanks (to have a simplier P2), how do you control wich tank gets to be construct in p2? Does he stay reshaped the first time he gets it till the end?
    - Does Willpower drain faster the longer you are reshaped?

    Thanks alot for your help! Seems pretty overwhelming atm.

    Greetz
    Last edited by Riemu2k3; 2013-01-07 at 12:04 PM.

  7. #27
    1. Do you mean in p1? If so, 2 pools each transform. If you mean extra constructs in p2, 0. Lots of adds will be up at transition—that's the most hectic part of the fight. Ranged don't have much time on Monstrosity; that's normal.
    2. Plate DPS taunts and blows CDs. I tanked it too. I just had enough threat so it went to me every time and used cooldowns.
    3. We always just used 2 tanks. 2 tanks seems easier.
    4. No. Ability 2 takes Will to use though.
    Last edited by Squirl; 2013-01-07 at 06:55 AM.

  8. #28
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    How many scalpels do you do before you push the boss to P2?

    We are thinking of just doing 5 scalpels, burning the boss to ~40% on the 5th one and having a tank being permanently transformed. I imagine the tank that's transformed alternates stacks between boss and monstrosity and is the only one that eats puddles in P2? This would mean that we would enter P3 with the boss having close to 50 stacks, meaning that he would probably die in like 30 seconds (completely ignoring the P3 mechanic).

    How many adds do you have up on the transition to P2? Do we need to keep 2, 4 or 6 (+the fresh scalpels 4) to maintain the tank through p2?

    I like this strategy because the person who is transformed has one goal (to stack the debuff on the monstrosity) and then leave when his energy is lower. You have a risky entry into P2, but not having to deal with dpsing through the reshape life extra health from consuming amber probably saves a lot more DPS than having to deal with a handful of adds. Adds have 750k health and consuming a pool gives 2.1 million health back.

  9. #29
    We do 4-5 Scalpels (depending on which tank is transformed first; we always use the same tank) before pushing. We push it AFTER the last Scalpel, not during, so the interrupt timers on the Monstrosity line up better. You really don't need the extra damage during Scalpel. The last phase ends really quickly anyways as long as you don't let stacks drop.

    The p3 orbs will pop up before it dies, but the people who get fixated can just run away; no need to actually execute the mechanic correctly.

    The transformed tank is the only one who eats pools in p2.

    We go into p2 with 12-14 adds (some are still pools at this point though; they're not all up at once). Just kill them. Damage on the Monstrosity is not important, and especially not before it has stacks.

    You just need to survive the transition, interrupt everything, and never let stacks drop from the boss or Monstrosity and you'll win.

  10. #30
    I really don't see the need to delay the transition until 5th Scalpel. Sure you'll get slightly more stacks on boss and drop him lower - but 3rd phase is trivial anyway, so starting at 55% instead of 60 barely matters. Going earlier lets you recover in case of Monstrosity losing stacks. Sure it *shouldn't* happen, but if it does, you'll have 50 seconds extra to deal with it - which is more than enough to do it.

    'Course, if the tank "never" fails, it's a moot point, but "never say never".
    Last edited by KaPe; 2013-01-07 at 02:49 PM.

  11. #31
    How hard does the monstrosity hit a non-tank.. eg a paladin or DK?

    is 20% dmg reduction from icebound + blood presence enuff for the DK to tank during the flings?
    As im guessin we'll rotate icebound, ironbark, pain supression.. or do the flings come more often?

    Edit: We have a fury warrior actually, would be better if he went into defensive stance as thats 20% dmg reduction all the time?
    Last edited by Deathruler11; 2013-01-07 at 02:00 PM.

  12. #32
    The only real issue are crits - if you're unlucky, it can hurt quite a bit. That said, the Monstrosity does hit harder than boss himself and non-tanks can be targeted by slimes, so that's even more potential damage. If you have cooldowns, use them to prevent accidents.

  13. #33
    we could have our paladin spamin denounce during the fling to prevent crits?

    how often is the fling if we were to plan out cooldowns?

  14. #34
    we did it with 3 tanks (10man) after some bad luck tries with fling+stun+scalpels=dead people So it is pretty easy doable with 3 tanks

  15. #35
    We stack on the boss on p1, without dpsing him, bringing him down to about 25% on the scalpel, 2 healed, then let the stacks fall on the boss during p2. Everyone transformed eat four pools and get dpsed to 20%, so there are no slimes around. The combat is the same at all moments (kill blobs, dps transformed, dps monstrouosity with the time left).

    The only problem is that everyone needs to learn how to eat, interrupt themselves and interrupt the monstruosity. The good part is that you have two tanks up to taunt, there are never more than 4 slimes (that should die asap) and the combat is the same from to the start to the end, so there are no accidents nor out of control moments.
    Last edited by Espada; 2013-01-10 at 09:12 PM.

  16. #36
    hi just a few quick questions here.
    We go in Phase 1 with 4 scalpels, everytank eat 2 puddels. We go in phase 2 with a fulltime transformed tank and he is the only one who eats puddles there. At that point we only stack on the boss, not on the monstrosity. But here we run into some problems. When the monstrosity is about ~40%, were start wiping.
    How are u handling this phase? Should the transformed tank also stack on the monstrosity? Phase 3 shouldn't be a big problem, but phase 2 is.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bizil View Post
    hi just a few quick questions here.
    We go in Phase 1 with 4 scalpels, everytank eat 2 puddels. We go in phase 2 with a fulltime transformed tank and he is the only one who eats puddles there. At that point we only stack on the boss, not on the monstrosity. But here we run into some problems. When the monstrosity is about ~40%, were start wiping.
    How are u handling this phase? Should the transformed tank also stack on the monstrosity? Phase 3 shouldn't be a big problem, but phase 2 is.
    You could try reading the thread.

  18. #38
    I personally would prefer going with a full-time construct but I have a hard time convincing my raid group it's possible in 10-man. We had a few tries with that tactic but always ran out of pools and the tank lost willpower to continue. What's the secret with having enough pools all the time? Don't stack debuffs on every CD? That way you sure can't stack on both targets. :/

  19. #39
    you need to let pools respawn in p1 and kill them again, as someone wrote above, they had 6 pools up when entering p2. otherwise willpower won't work out. if you 3 heal it, you can also let the construct not interrupt its OWN amber explosion here and there to save willpower (however the monstrosities exp always has to be interrupted, the construct explodes for about 250k and the monstrosity for 500k). saving up pools to sustain a construct for the entire fight felt messy for us, so we did it without that:

    we're doing 0 dps to the boss other then the tank and construct amber strike in P1. that works out to the boss being on around 73-74% just before the 5th or 6th reshape. there's an exact timer for the scalpel cast. and he will always cast reshape life right after, no matter what is going on.
    Bloodlust 3-4 seconds before the scalpel comes up, everyone pops dps pots and dps cooldowns (the scalpel plus reshape life lasts for 12 seconds, so any cooldowns longer then 15s can safely be used before you start nuking). as soon as he starts casting scalpel, go nuts. just have to make sure that no one nukes too fast, if he's on 70% before the scalpel starts channeling, then he will call in the monstrosity.
    That's the 'kill him in phase 1' strat only that we run 2 tanks 2 healers 6 dps and don't finish him off there, we get him to around 30-35% in those 12 seconds.

    The reshape life that he casts after the scalpel (before he calls in the monstrosity) will target a tank. That construct then debuffs the monstrosity (we let the stacks fall off the boss) and drinks 4 pools. That construct is freed up and released.
    Next construct will be on a random player then. That construct again drinks 4 pools and is freed.
    3rd construct (of phase 2) is then not freed up any more and only drinks up 2 pools as the other 2 pools will be needed in p3, otherwise that construct will run out of willpower. That construct starts debuffing the boss when the monstrosity drops below 15% health.
    P3 then is not as blazing fast as when you keep the full stack up on the boss, of course, but as he's on 30%, it's still pretty quick.

    We also set up interrupting no the monstrosity so that it's always the previous construct interrupting that. The first monstrosity amber explosion will happen roughly when the 1st random player target reshape life is cast in P2. That is interrupted by the tank-construct (the construct that was spawned by the reshape life when we zerged the boss down in p1). Then the first random -target construct interrupts the monstrosity amber explosion just when the 3rd P2 construct spawns (the one that stays up all fight).
    That means you never have to hurry to get the interrupt sorted just after you got hit be reshape life and isntead can hit the current dps/debuff target right away and then sort out drinking the pools first and only have to think about interrupting the monstrosity shortly before you press the release button. Obviously still have to itnerrupt your own cast though.
    If one of the 2 healers gets the first random target construct, that's typically no problem, the damage in that phase is pretty low. However if one of the 2 healers gets targeted by the second random-target contruct (the one you keep up for the rest of the fight), to smooth things you'll need some form of raid CD, tranq, vamp embrace, ancestral healing (whatever the shaman vamp embrace is called) etc. And tank CDs of course. It's still very doable, losing 1-2 players doesn't hurt that much. Boss is very low and the constructs carry the dps. Just make sure that everyone is aware that those amber balls (similar to that shadow cutter/lazer on sinestra p1/p3) will switch target if their current target dies or gets turnred into a construct. When that happens, they love to spasm around too, I had very clearly both following me once when the emote said it was on someone else.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by kaib View Post
    you need to let pools respawn in p1 and kill them again, as someone wrote above, they had 6 pools up when entering p2. otherwise willpower won't work out. if you 3 heal it, you can also let the construct not interrupt its OWN amber explosion here and there to save willpower (however the monstrosities exp always has to be interrupted, the construct explodes for about 250k and the monstrosity for 500k). saving up pools to sustain a construct for the entire fight felt messy for us, so we did it without that:

    we're doing 0 dps to the boss other then the tank and construct amber strike in P1. that works out to the boss being on around 73-74% just before the 5th or 6th reshape. there's an exact timer for the scalpel cast. and he will always cast reshape life right after, no matter what is going on.
    Bloodlust 3-4 seconds before the scalpel comes up, everyone pops dps pots and dps cooldowns (the scalpel plus reshape life lasts for 12 seconds, so any cooldowns longer then 15s can safely be used before you start nuking). as soon as he starts casting scalpel, go nuts. just have to make sure that no one nukes too fast, if he's on 70% before the scalpel starts channeling, then he will call in the monstrosity.
    That's the 'kill him in phase 1' strat only that we run 2 tanks 2 healers 6 dps and don't finish him off there, we get him to around 30-35% in those 12 seconds.

    The reshape life that he casts after the scalpel (before he calls in the monstrosity) will target a tank. That construct then debuffs the monstrosity (we let the stacks fall off the boss) and drinks 4 pools. That construct is freed up and released.
    Next construct will be on a random player then. That construct again drinks 4 pools and is freed.
    3rd construct (of phase 2) is then not freed up any more and only drinks up 2 pools as the other 2 pools will be needed in p3, otherwise that construct will run out of willpower. That construct starts debuffing the boss when the monstrosity drops below 15% health.
    P3 then is not as blazing fast as when you keep the full stack up on the boss, of course, but as he's on 30%, it's still pretty quick.

    We also set up interrupting no the monstrosity so that it's always the previous construct interrupting that. The first monstrosity amber explosion will happen roughly when the 1st random player target reshape life is cast in P2. That is interrupted by the tank-construct (the construct that was spawned by the reshape life when we zerged the boss down in p1). Then the first random -target construct interrupts the monstrosity amber explosion just when the 3rd P2 construct spawns (the one that stays up all fight).
    That means you never have to hurry to get the interrupt sorted just after you got hit be reshape life and isntead can hit the current dps/debuff target right away and then sort out drinking the pools first and only have to think about interrupting the monstrosity shortly before you press the release button. Obviously still have to itnerrupt your own cast though.
    If one of the 2 healers gets the first random target construct, that's typically no problem, the damage in that phase is pretty low. However if one of the 2 healers gets targeted by the second random-target contruct (the one you keep up for the rest of the fight), to smooth things you'll need some form of raid CD, tranq, vamp embrace, ancestral healing (whatever the shaman vamp embrace is called) etc. And tank CDs of course. It's still very doable, losing 1-2 players doesn't hurt that much. Boss is very low and the constructs carry the dps. Just make sure that everyone is aware that those amber balls (similar to that shadow cutter/lazer on sinestra p1/p3) will switch target if their current target dies or gets turnred into a construct. When that happens, they love to spasm around too, I had very clearly both following me once when the emote said it was on someone else.

    That's actually our tactics except we didn't know you can still zerg the boss that low during the amber scalpel. Thanks for posting.

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