I agree that it would be unfair to blame the entire population of the Alliance for Garithos' actions, but I would argue that condemning a group for the actions of a person who was their Commander-in-Chief and de facto leader, is a little more viable than blaming an entire group for the actions of a few rogue, bottom-rung members.
Still, I don't do it myself. I blame him for being the reason why up until now the blood elves have been reluctant top trust the Alliance, but I don't condemn every human as evil because one of them was a racist asshole. xD
But that is what you don't see; it's a valid response if albeit not fair.
And honestly, you can't, YOU CAN'T skim over the fact that this was the second time Sunreaver traitors screwed over the Kirin Tor and the alliance. You call alliance fanboys biased when you are just as much. Do you really expect Jaina to just say "Okay guys, this was the second time you have betrayed me, but guys, don't do it again! just lets have vanilla icecream"
Can you truly think that Jaina is just going to let treason slide for a third time? That's either naive or dumb, but I call your bias not letting you think realistically.
We all know that most Sunreavers are innocent, and it sucks for them, but the actions of the few DO condemn all; because they as an organization where already in the dog house, and again, Aethas incompetence to police his own people made the Sunreavers a liability for Kirin tor's intentions. You again make biased assumptions with reversing the roles, you DON'T know what would Jaina have done if the Silver Covenant stole the bell. Stop it.
And I find all of your post about this so maddening because I normally agree with you, but in this case your faction bias is just crippling to your arguments.
And one more thing: I try to understand the factions action's in the context of war. The Horde has done some pretty sketchy things, but they served military purposes, it was warranted, it is a part of war, it's justified in the context. So in fairness, I can only extend the same parameters to the alliance. And if we put it in relative terms, Dalaran was a walk in the park on a sunny day.
So again, please drop the bias, it's unbecoming and doesn't do anything for the discussion of you cannot be realistic and honest.
Last edited by TheDangerZone; 2012-12-16 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Adding another point
Its not just Garithos. In their starting zone, before the Blood Elves join the Horde the Alliance sends a dwarf ambassador to spy on their activities as well as an entire Night Elf encampment in the Ghostlands. This is likely a response to the Forsaken opening ties with the Blood Elves, helping to combat the Scourge Remnants in the Ghostlands by rebuilding Tranquillien but the fact remains that instead of opening friendly ties with a war-ravaged people, the Alliance chose to only take any action regarding the fate of the Sin'dorei after a Horde race decided to aid them. Four years pass between Warcraft III and World of Warcraft. You can point fingers at Onyxia's influence in Stormwind Government all you wish, but the fact remains that the Sin'dorei were left ravaged and alone for four years before ANYONE (even the Forsaken) tried to help them out.
Lor'themar actually comments on this during the Dalaran finale, "Their bigotry and distrust is what drove the Sin'dorei into the Horde in the first place!"
Last edited by Rhozul; 2012-12-16 at 07:19 PM.
The Blood Elves are a nice race, but they don't deserve any lore development. They already got enough. A whole patch was based on them, AKA the Sunwell with Kil'Jaeden's return. The Draenei and Gnomes deserve much more love than any other race sadly, especially with how much potential they have. Gnomes are more refined than goblins, and the Draenei are some of the most powerful sorcerers and clerics in the lore, rivaling humans and elves.
It's a shame that Blizzard neglects much more interesting races than the Horde's.
The Blood Elves treason was terrible, but Jaina's lack of judgement is worse. A few traitors don't represent a whole race.
Last edited by Norgannon the Dreamweaver; 2012-12-16 at 08:08 PM.
It's not supposed to be a universal fact, lol. Draenei just have more potential than any other race due to their vague culture. We hardly know anything about them, giving many ideas/possibilities for their story. (if they ever even give them one)
both factions need development. on the horde side, orcs are always well developed, goblins and the forsaken got a lot of development on early cata, trolls got development pre-cata and tauren got a lot of development on 5.0.
blood elves were kind of rotting there since their minimal participation on WotLK.
I agree gnomes and the draenei need some lore but you can't expect blizz to put it on the horde quests, can you? lol
Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.
Well you're looking at it wrong. It isn't a fact, but we have more proof/evidence that the draenei deserve more love than any other race. Draenei have hardly any cultural significance on Azeroth as opposed to most other playable races. They're from a world unknown to us in so many ways. They are the only truly immortal playable race. They are among the greatest casters. There is so much more vague and interesting things to them. Of course this is based on my opinion, but I am using hard evidence to support it.
Ah man I love the blood elves Hate that I play Alliance and miss out on all this awesome stuff though ;(
It's a game. There are no "horde fanboys and apologists.". There is no divide between players, and nobody is hypocritical. Everything is opinion. It's a game. People are not horde or alliance. Their characters are.*And their characters aren't making these posts.
I find people that say there are blizz apologists and fanboys to be the most annoying types of players and forums posters. They often live in the game and take it way too seriously.
It's kinda why I feel they should make another one of these story driven quest lines in Gilneas.
It gives the Forsaken some story, I really can't imagine them being on Pandaria without them making it worse for the Horde given how their antics have for the most part been mostly unsupervised.
Not to mention how I believe it was Metzen or Kosak mentioned how implementing Worgen and Gilnean architecture was hard. So why not just go back there then as that will solve two issues. The only problem would be turning parts of a phased Gilneas into an Alliance hub as the zone is just unused after the starting experience. Although the problem ofc is no Horde equivalent.
I don't want to see Gilneas be an inaccessible place for Alliance, but once it is I would imagine it would make Horde players naturally a little jealous.
Last edited by Scummer; 2012-12-16 at 08:56 PM.
Draenei hardly got anything in BC compared to the elves in any other expansion. Gnomes actually got a revolution while the Draenei did nothing. Gnomes need a lot of love, but not as much as draenei.
---------- Post added 2012-12-16 at 08:59 PM ----------
You're being too objective, lol.