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  1. #601
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    good
    that means the story telling is working
    The entire storyline was set up that you would feel at least a fraction of sympathy for the sunreavers they could have made the event entirely different, but they chose to stage it in a somewhat grey environment, which made it amazing, though I advise anyone to do both sides to see the full picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by anisadora View Post
    Right. Giving someone a chance to leave and then imprisoning them when they DONT leave YOUR jurisdiction is completely the same as bombing the everliving fuck out of their home, their loved ones, and their stuff.

    Okay.
    The only problem with that is she only offered Aethas to leave the city with his people, he was an idiot for not taking it, but the rest of the sunreavers were never given that choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I'm kind of hoping to get the chance to kill Veressa, then I can find her kids and point at them laughing.

    (yes, this is a joke, durrrr)
    OFT

    Windrunners all have serious temper problems it seems, I shudder at the thought if Alleria had become the Banshee queen, Sylvanas would look like a saint compared to her.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-01-01 at 08:31 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  2. #602
    Pandaren Monk Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anisadora View Post
    Right. Giving someone a chance to leave and then imprisoning them when they DONT leave YOUR jurisdiction is completely the same as bombing the everliving fuck out of their home, their loved ones, and their stuff.

    Okay.
    Again she didn't give them a chance to leave, she ports to dalaran, starts killing sunreavers, imprisons aethas, then goes about purging the city.

    And is killing most of the blood elves in the city with fire frost and old gods know what else really better than bombing militery targets ? (The civilians escaped theramoore before the bomb hit, however the civilian sunreavers wearn't even given the chance to get out, they're forced to fight the most powerfull human mage in azeroth with their fists to try stop her throwing frost bolts at them)

  3. #603
    Stood in the Fire anisadora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post

    The only problem with that is she only offered Aethas to leave the city with his people, he was an idiot for not taking it, but the rest of the sunreavers were never given that choice.



    OFT

    Windrunners all have serious temper problems it seems, I shudder at the thought if Alleria had become the Banshee queen, Sylvanas would look like a saint compared to her.
    yet we aren't saying that he was an idiot for not taking that chance to protect his people?

    Sylvanas is a whole different kettle of fish. I shudder when thinking about how Blizzard is now using scourge music in her cutscenes... all the allegories theyre throwing at her becoming the new lich king.

    But hey, I kinda miss northrend, so that might be fun.

  4. #604
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anisadora View Post
    yet we aren't saying that he was an idiot for not taking that chance to protect his people?
    He was outnumbered and outgunned he was a fool to stay, he saw that she just killed some of his bodyguards before she even said a thing. He gambled with the safety of his subjects and utterly failed to ensure it, maybe he thought Jaina wouldn't go so far, still a moronic decision to challenge her and the entire kirin tor without most sunreavers even knowing what the hell was going on.

    Sylvanas is a whole different kettle of fish. I shudder when thinking about how Blizzard is now using scourge music in her cutscenes... all the allegories theyre throwing at her becoming the new lich king.

    But hey, I kinda miss northrend, so that might be fun.
    She should focus on saving her soul instead of trying to conquer the world, but that would be to logical for the wow universe^^
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  5. #605
    Pandaren Monk Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    He was outnumbered and outgunned he was a fool to stay, he saw that she just killed some of his bodyguards before she even said a thing. He gambled with the safety of his subjects and utterly failed to ensure it, maybe he thought Jaina wouldn't go so far, still a moronic decision to challenge her and the entire kirin tor without most sunreavers even knowing what the hell was going on.



    She should focus on saving her soul instead of trying to conquer the world, but that would be to logical for the wow universe^^
    I do not recall aethas ever being given a choice to leave peacefully, he said one sentance that seemed negotiateable, and then she took it as a decleration of war.

  6. #606
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sindrasa View Post
    I do not recall aethas ever being given a choice to leave peacefully, he said one sentance that seemed negotiateable, and then she took it as a decleration of war.
    She told him to leave the city with his people, he had a chance, even though from his perspective she wasn't fair, but he had one. If he had swallowed his pride and done what is best for his people all of them would have made it out.

    I guess he underestimated how far Jaina would go.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  7. #607
    Pandaren Monk Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    She told him to leave the city with his people, he had a chance, even though from his perspective she wasn't fair, but he had one. If he had swallowed his pride and done what is best for his people all of them would have made it out.

    I guess he underestimated how far Jaina would go.
    Ok, i just watched the alliance version of this on youtube and it went something like this.

    Jaina: Blah blah you are no longer welcome here.

    Aethas: This is our city too proudmoore!

    Jaina: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

    It sounded more like aethas was trying to negotiate rarther than refusing to leave the city but jaina wouldn't have any of it.

    While i agree aethas might not be that good a leader and perhaps he chose the wrong responce (Perhaps also related to jaina killing his guards before stating why she was angry), jaina should not have responded to him the way she did.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Varian cannot do that, for Jaina, when the 'purge' occurred, she was (and still is) the leader of the Kirin Tor. Basically, the leader of a small nation, which, cannot be stressed enough, was NOT part of the Alliance when the purge happened, so Varian has no authority at all to imprison Jaina (or execute her, as you want). The Kirin Tor only joined the Alliance AFTER the purge.

    Jaina didn't get a 'get out of jail free card' because there was no reason to put her in jail. There is nothing Jaina has to answer for. The purge (although sloppily carried out during a moment of intense anger) was completely justified. Twice the Sunreavers (or, to be fair, a representative of the Sunreavers) broke the Kirin Tor neutrality, therefore they've forsaken their right to remain in Dalaran.

    OBS: For people crying out saying that both the issues of breaking neutrality were perpetrated by individuals, not the whole group, it must be reminded that it is the full responsibility of the head of the group to keep their group in check. Not only twice the group failed to keep themselves in check, but also twice failed to bring the perpetrator to justice. So, yes, their removal of Dalaran was completely justified.
    Jaina is still a member of the Alliance. Being leader of the Kirin Tor does not give her any more power than the other members of the Council. It is just a figurehead position from when the Council membership was secret except for the leader. Everything the Kirin Tor does is decided by a vote from the Council of Six. Rhonin couldn't decide to commit the Kirin Tor to aide Theramore, he needed to put it to a vote by the Council. Expelling a member for SUSPECTED treason seems like a more serious situation that would warrant a Council decision. The last time they expelled a Council member was Kel'Thuzad. There were 3 Council members present during the INVESTIGATION (Antonidas, Modera, and Drenden). Only after they found evidence of Kel'Thuzad's guilt, did they expelled him. Jaina had no evidence of Aethas' guilt and she expelled him without consulting any other Council members. She then leaves Vereesa in charge (who isn't even in the Kirin Tor).

    Either Jaina disbanded the Council, Palpatine style, or she gave them a deranged excuse.

    Jaina: Yea, so I totally tried to kick out Aethas for treason and arrest all his friends. Those guards I killed ambushed me and I used my super kung-fu skills to defend myself. I have all the evidence placing Aethas at Darnassus, but Aethas stole it when he escaped.
    Council: We believe you, Jaina. You just recently betrayed us when you broke into our libraries, attempted to use a WMD against innocent people, and also nearly killed our buddy Thrall. And Aethas has always been a loyal member of this organization and a friend to yourself. But, we'll take you at your word without any evidence.

    Seems legit.

    The sub-factions within Dalaran (Sunreavers) contain people who are not part of the Kirin Tor. There are many people (magi and non-magi) who live in Dalaran, but aren't part of the Kirin Tor. The membership of the Kirin Tor is fairly small. The people who were traitors are a very small minority.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #609
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Aquamonkey, you know by now I share just what your saying in this debate and your post should highlight it perfectly the massive plothole that is the purging of dalaran, it stinks the same as the neptulon story, and I can see it in months to come blizzard will be admiting they made a mistake, didn't think well at the time and that they acted on impulse just to give some alliance players there jollies.

    But sadly this what your saying its going to be lost on them, since it is by no means incorrect to anyone who waves the blue flag.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    the blood elves, once again 1 guy =/= entire alliance.
    In contrast, 2 guys == entire sunreavers.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 12:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The purge (although sloppily carried out during a moment of intense anger) was completely justified. Twice the Sunreavers (or, to be fair, a representative of the Sunreavers) broke the Kirin Tor neutrality, therefore they've forsaken their right to remain in Dalaran.
    So how about Jainas neutrality when she had Stormwind Soldiers in Dalaran the moment she started her purging ? Oh and those guys were killing sunreavers, too.
    Last edited by Yriel; 2013-01-01 at 11:27 PM.

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